100 Fly Time vs 25 USRPT Set

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  doc 7 months ago.

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  • #3132

    lefthanded swimmer
    Participant

    How accurate does a 25 fly USRPT set match up with a swimmers 100 Fly Time? My swimmer can average a 13.3 x 19 @ 17-20 sec rest, let’s just say 20 seconds RI. Rushall shows this to be a 53.2. He is swimming a 57 flat. I assume Rushall is saying the start and first 25 washes with 3 turns. He doesn’t have great fly turns. Hand touch to feet is usually 1.3-1.5 seconds. (He is working on this). Does this mean he might have a weak start combined with slow turns? Maybe it’s mental? Any ideas? Most coaches discussing rest intervals on here say to play with this number some. I’ve found 15 second RI makes him top out at 10-12 repeats on 25s no matter what. The only way he can make intervals with 15 second RI is to just slow down on purpose which isn’t the right answer.

    #3134

    doc
    Participant

    Not very.
    Turn speeds for fly and breast should be in the .77 to .88 range (Sweetenham, we see .88 from top end kids)going from hand touch to foot touch. Probably needs to get his heels to his rear end and rotate faster.

    what are his splits? first 50, second 50.
    Doc


    ? I child proofed my house and they still get in 🙂

    #3135

    coachc
    Participant

    I was seeing similar results with the inability to finish the race.
    I started having my flyers go 50’s at 2nd half speed. He was going 56.5 (25.6 and 30.9 )
    After a couple of weeks going 50’s on 1 min focusing on 2nd 50 speed , he dropped to 53.8 in season ( 24.6 and 29.9 ) without a shave or tech suit. In fact we had not unloaded either.

    Good luck the rest of the season,

    Chris

    #3138

    kevin
    Participant

    @coachc: wow, 50’s at back-half speed on 1min. How many do they make? I do this on 2min and they don’t make many.

    A “bad turn” doesn’t only impact turn time, but also how many speed is carried into the next length. Often they have to make up for this speed loss in the first strokes of a length. They pay this cash at the end of the race.

    I’ve been doing “pure” (Rushall) USRPT for a few years now. This season I’ve started to incorporate some of the protocol sets as described by @doc. However, a set such as nx50 on 2min back half speed builds up more lactate. I feel that the day after, they are still fatigued. This often results in a “bad session”. @doc: do you see the same phenomenon? How do you deal with this or do they adapt over time?

    #3140

    coachc
    Participant

    The results were bad to start ( only make 1-2 and abandon the set after 2 fails ) but they have improved each week. I will have them do them on 2 min as well which they have more success.

    #3141

    doc
    Participant

    Kevin and all,
    The speed is the most important thing to hold. Adjust rest intervals to the shortest possible. But just hold the speed. So it may mean that you have to do 50s on 2 or 1:30 to be able to hold back 1/2 100 pace. Just hold speed and let them stop when they can’t.

    We do 5-6 “n x 50 on 2:00” per week 3 x stroke and 3 x free per week along with all the other protocol sets we do. It is a lot of very fast swimming ever day. We have great weeks and some weeks not so great. But over all they hold up very well and are able to swim very fast. We just had a dual meet this past weekend, had over 80% season best and that’s from college swimmers at all distances, not an easy thing to do.

    The question of “dealing with it” is really addressed in you have to let them stop when they can no longer hold pace/speed. Yes, it can be very frustrating when they only make 2 of the 10 you offered. But that’s what they could do that day. You have to trust them that they are giving you the best they have for that day.

    Your observation on “high lactate” is correct in the early stages/season. In the 4 to 6 range La will be in the 8-10 mmol/l. But as the numbers progress we saw in the 12-16 x 50 range 4-6 mmol/l. I tested this over 3 seasons and held true each season. This is the “shift” I’ve discussed in other parts of the forum. It’s how the body handles work. It changes the energy demands and I don’t care what Dr. Rushall says in the “Bulletins” something changes.

    Food for thought,

    Doc


    ? I child proofed my house and they still get in 🙂

    #3142

    lefthanded swimmer
    Participant

    Thanks so much for the replies. I suspect the turn speed is a problem that is eating into the outcomes in a race based on your comments. We will work on feet to the rear and rotate faster! Poor turns are also probably the reason his 25 repeats at 100 pace also don’t match up too well with 50 repeats back end tempo with 1 min rest. He can usually only do only 4-6 50s at 29 high to low 30 with 1 minute rest. Other favorite fly sets we do is from Salo: 100 Pace 3 x 25 + 50; RI 20,20,30 sec. 3 x through; 2 min. between. We are probably 40% USRPT now.

    100 fly race splits are pretty much 27/30. As stated above, he has no problem holding 13.3 for 15 or more with 17-20 sec RI.

    Doc..if you see this. was that 12-16 50s with 1 minute rest or on the 2 min? Thanks for clarifying.

    #3143

    doc
    Participant

    That’s for 50s on 2:00/1:30.


    ? I child proofed my house and they still get in 🙂

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