billratio
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GlennGruber,
I guess I glanced over that part. Thanks!
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
The best race I ever swam was without an in-pool warmup. All I did was took a shower. I know one example doesn’t prove anything but I’ve long been a doubter of how much warming up matters.
It would be hilarious to be the team that shows up to dual meets and doesn’t do any warm up in the pool. I still think it’s useful to try out the blocks and stuff though.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
Thanks for that chart! I’ll hopefully have some useful data to share with others in a few years.
So to be clear. The percentages are how much faster the time at the final meet was than their best time from in season?
I’m excited that we are done with our crazy stretch of meets. We had 7 in the last 3 weeks. You’ve got my confidence level back up again. I think we’ll be okay.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
If I made her hold 32.7 she would definitely not make all 30 but I think she could do pretty well. On 1:00 she held 31.3-31.8 (200 free pace) for 8 straight. I’m guessing she could go close to 20×50 @:50 going 32.7s. Maybe 15ish? I’ll cut back on numbers and just have her shoot for faster paces. I think she’ll be up for it.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
Don’t worry about the length. I love reading your responses. As long as you don’t mind giving them. It is so helpful for me.
I agree that she needs more speed. We’ll get to work on that. We have 4 weeks until our big meet. So I was thinking 2 more weeks to really go hard and then start cutting back more for this girl.
Overall I need to do a much better job of recording practice data. I don’t have averages. The main numbers I have are how many they completed and what time they were holding (supposed to hold) under. So I know she was holding under 33.2 for those 10×50 on the first round for sure (I was timing many of them). The 100’s are never as pretty. She holds under 1:08 but for that set it went 1:07.1, 1:07.4, 1:07.8, then may have hit a low 1:08. It’s hard with 40 swimmers to be holding accountable. I plan on having them do more recording next year.
I will go look for race splits. I know I have them.
Thanks for sharing those percentages. If she could drop 5 percent and get that 2:10.5 down to a 2:04 I would be more than satisfied. If our team can achieve between to 3-5% I’ll be extremely happy.
Do you have 100 free/stroke percentages?
Are those numbers going from a time with just a plain lycra team suit to a tech suit?
With the LZR I read on a Masters forum some theories that it does more for the non-elite swimmers than the elite ones. Something about the compression doing more for you if you have more to compress. It’s all speculation though.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
Thanks for all of that. I’m not sure I understand 100%… or even 80%. 🙂
Are you recommending to add the 8×25, 8×50 and 5×100 to what we’ve been doing or replace it? Wouldn’t I still want to be getting them up to 2-3,000 yards at 500 pace? So in that case are you recommending multiple rounds? Or is this something you are just suggesting for the last 2 weeks before Sections?
Reading it again it sounds like something you think I should do during the 10 days leading up to sections? Wouldn’t that be a huge drop to go down to only 600 yards of 500 race pace yards? I’m probably reading this all wrong and just really confused.
Unrelated question. What type of percentage drop do you typically see with the 3 day protocol? How much does it vary based on gender, age, event, etc.?
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
I have just one other question. We did a little less than normal yesterday because we have True Team Sections today. She was holding 32.5s but only for a set of 10×50 which followed 4×100. We did two rounds of it. I know holding it for only 10 is a lot different but she has clearly been getting faster throughout the season on her pace 50s. Even the 33.1s was a huge improvement from last month holding 33.5s or a little higher. She also did her 200 pace 50s while holding 31.5s-31.6s. It’s usually hard for her to just break 32.
So my question is, even though her body has changed, would you say there is a chance of getting back down to the low 5:20s if she continues the training? I just don’t think the season has been long enough for her to fully adapt. I just want to at least be able to give her some realistic encouragement if she’s disappointed at sections.
Her training the last two years had main sets like 1×500 @7:30, 1×400 @6:00, 1×300 @4:30… etc. Or else sets like 10×150 50RB3/50pull/50RB5. Every workout i looked at from the last two years for them seemed to have almost all training that was not race specific. I really thought USRPT would work for her even though she’s gone through some changes.
As you said, it’s very frustrating.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
I know that that is the real problem. It’s just really difficult to see her work so hard and not improve.
Yeah, I feel like just for her to feel rested emotionally and mentally she’d need more than 3 days. I think she’s mostly feeling tired because she’s pushing so hard in practice and not getting faster.
I thought I read somewhere that the LZR elite2 could give somewhere between 2.5% and 3% improvement. So if you figure 3% brings her down to 2:04.1 then the taper would only have been 1 second. I could easily be wrong about the 2.5-3% though. Is that information available anywhere?
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
I just thought I’d give an update on my swimmers to the people who’ve given me advice and to anyone else who is interested.
We rested a little bit on Wednesday before the meet. Most of my swimmers did somewhere between 1,000-1,300 yards at race pace. I didn’t do the 3 day protocol but took out enough reps to make them think they were rested for the meet.
Most of my swimmers did great and helped rid me of a lot of my anxiety. My top sprinter (who started using Oldschools 50 advice a couple weeks ago) went the fastest she’s ever gone in season. She went 25.9 and 25.1 on the relay. Her lifetime best is 25.3 so I’m thinking if she had worn a tech suit it could have been a lifetime best. Her 100 was 57.4 so 1.6 seconds off her lifetime best of 55.8. Her confidence is back 100% and she was working her butt off today in practice. I had a younger girl go 26.4 on the relay and she’s never broken 28 in her individual 50. She also broke 1:00 for the first time in her 100 and she had never even broken 1:01 before. My top breaststroker got the fastest time she’s had in 2 years and is on track to finally get a best time after being in the same place for a long time. Overall my entire team did very well and I think they will all be ready for sections in 6 weeks.
My only concern is my distance swimmers. All of the advice I’ve been given is very helpful so I’m not doubting or asking to change anything. Just more stating my fears since my wife is tired of hearing me talk about swimming. 🙂 They went 5:43 (lifetime best is 5:31) and 5:49 (lifetime best is 5:23 from 2 years ago, was 5:26 last year). I’m not so worried about the first girl since she has been 5:40 this year. With a suit I think she’d be at her best time. With some rest I know she could be under 5:30 right now, though I’d rather have her at 5:25. The second girl is a senior and she works so hard that I feel awful every time she has a disappointing swim. I want so bad for her to be happy with her senior year. We’ve started doing more 100s in practice and she can hold 1:08s but she can’t consistently go under 35 in her race. I’m not sure if she’s just swimming it wrong or she’s just worn out from all the race pace yards. Her 200 is even worse but it might just be because she swims it 1:02/1:10 for a 2:12. I think if she went 1:04 that first 100 she’d be 1.5s faster at least. I’ve rambled so much. Thanks for reading all that. 🙂
I guess I do have one question. She has tapered really well in years past. Can I expect a big drop from a USRPT taper… or sharpening period? She’s been 5:47.0 this year but even a 10 second taper and 10 seconds from a suit won’t get her back to where she was last year with traditional training. These girls are hitting 2,500 yards most days if that helps with guesses on what some rest would do for her.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
Thanks for all of the advice and encouragement everyone. I will be sure to let you know how the season goes.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
They have made 30 50s holding 33.5 @:50. I’ve since changed their goal pace to 33.0. They haven’t ever tried at :45. Do you think that would be too little rest?
I think you are right about variety. Most of them wouldn’t care if every week looked exactly the same. I have heard a few comments of “Ugh, 25s again.” But when I ask what they would rather swim they think about it and agree it’s better than swimming 100s and 200s.
Thanks for the encouragement Rick. It’s good to hear you’ve had success with such little pool time. Time in the water was something I was always worried about when I was running traditional training.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
That gives me an idea for a set for my distance swimmers. Could I have them do 50s on the :45 until they start missing and then switch to doing them on the :50 and then switch to doing them on the :55? That might allow for additional repeats at race pace. I’m always looking for ways to mix things up while remaining faithful to the principles of USRPT.
I personally wouldn’t mind doing the same exact sets every day but swimmers coming from traditional backgrounds are so used to weird/random things in their workouts. I think once they realize how much more effective this training is they will be fine with repetitive practices but until then I will lose them if I don’t throw different things at them every once in a while.
Anyone else have ideas for how to keep things interesting for them? I try to always have a point of focus for each set but I’m not sure what else to do.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
Oldschool, thanks for all of that information. That is encouraging. To answer your questions, they are all(but one) ahead of where they were last year. A lot of them are within 2-3% of lifetime bests. My distance swimmers have race splits that are a bit slower than they hold in practice and everyone else seems to swim a bit faster in meets than the pace they can hold in practice (Like I said, especially the breast and flyers).
It was a meet where we would’ve won by 80+ points if we hadn’t exhibitioned, so that could be part of the reason we swam slow. It’s harder to get pumped up for a meet like that.
Over the next three weeks we have two meets a week. We’ll only have 8 practices so I’m thinking too much rest might hurt our accumulation of potential. On the flip side, I don’t want the girls who have really bought in to start doubting. And I don’t want the doubters to completely give up. I think I will give them an easier workout Wednesday. Maybe that combined with having a meet on Tuesday will make our Thursday meet (big meet for us) a little faster.
I tried the slower send offs for our breaststrokers and flyers today. They loved it and looked so much better. I’m always nervous to go over 20 seconds rest. I appreciate that input. I think it will help a lot.
Mr. Gruber! It’s always nice to hear from a world record holder. I try to hold my distance swimmers pretty accountable. When they tell me they’re going 32.5s I correct them if I had them at 33s. I think the turns is where I got messed up so far this year. I didn’t account for it and they went in to the meet thinking they’d be able to hold 33s easily. Wound up going 34s and a couple 35s. Guess we’ll just have to work more to get it down.
I don’t like hearing that it could take 6 months to work. 🙂 How am I supposed to run effective USRPT in a 3 month high school season? The few kids who do club are doing traditional training the rest of the year.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
One of the things that spurred this question was the girl who had the best meet on our team had been sitting out almost every practice this week. She dropped 20 seconds from her 500 lifetime best and 4 seconds from her best 100 free.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
Thanks again! That is all very encouraging and very helpful. It’s really nice to be able to get input from someone so knowledgeable who has been through it. 8 weeks until sections. I’m hoping that is enough time to get my girls where they need to be.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
