Bob Bowman on USRPT

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  • #812
    Avatarkevin
    Participant

    http://swimswam.com/nbac-coach-bob-bowman-comments-usrpt/

    It’s only a short fragment. He sees the swimmer as a holistic organism, USRPT is very good, but he thinks a variety of stimuli is needed. “Spinach is very very good, but I’m not gonna eat it every day…”.

    Thoughts?

    #820
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    I liked the comments and discussion attached to the clip better than the clip itself.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #824
    AleksswimAleksswim
    Member

    Comments and discussion were amazing!

    It’s just a proof of existence of dogma in the world of swimming. If so in USA, the world leading swimming nation, you can imagine what it’s like in a small country like Serbia where I live?
    Thanks God that there are such forums where you can talk with people who think out of box

    #828
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    I don’t get it! This obession with volume or holstic approach or whatever you want to call it. If you go on USA Swimming SWIMS data base and plug in a name of the top swimmers and look at their performance progressions over the last 4 years you will see a very different story. Rates of improvement over 4 years that are a negative and that would get the majority of club coaches fired! and yet we hang on to this myth of volume is the answer for now and the future.

    A kid spends 100s of hours of training each year and makes no improvement? Really?

    Look at race splits of kids that you know their programs go large volumes, dryland and lift. Where is the advantage? There has to be one or why would you do it.

    During the Civil War they filled soldiers with whiskey, a stick to bite on and cut their leg off. If your Dr tried that you would hopefully ask about some type of anesthetic and if his reply was “hell this worked during the Civil War” you would crawl out of the office.

    This “they need an aerobic base” when young as if this will last a life time. Really, you need to spend sometime reading about adapations in human performance and how long that lasts. Do you think the first time coaches saw U. Bolt, they said this kid needs to train for the 10k, so he will have the base to go faster when he’s older? I think hell no, they looked at him and said “shit this kid is fast” or at least I would have. Why would you turn a thoroughbred into a donkey or plow horse, with the hope that you can reconvert them back into a thoroughbred. Really!

    Venting!

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #829
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    On his soapbox. Oldschool takes on traditionalists. I love it!!

    Two of our girls wore their #USRPT buttons on their prom dresses last night. For real. When was the last time a swimmer wore their Traditional Training button their prom dress?

    Kids love this stuff. At least ours do.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #831
    Avatarswimin
    Participant

    My concern is for the younger swimmers. I like it but not sure we should be experimenting on these 8-12 year olds. Michael Andrews is now 15, but he is doing 3 US race pace training workouts 3 times a day and he is the only one in his workout group. I think we need more success with the younger swimmers. Or am I wrong and just thinking old school. It’s hard to do this with a large workout group. Just my observation. Again I am willing but not completely sold. I feel Bob Bowman and Phelps were saying MA success is great but let’s see how far this will take him in long course and longer events. They are not convinced. And obviously Michael Phelps has had lots of success with what he has been doing. Thoughts and comments are welcome. Please give it to me.

    #832
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    I loved that rant, oldschoolc. I’ve heard the “Tom Jager’s first Junior National time was in the mile” story way too many times. I’ve even told it to others thinking it meant something. As if training for the mile when he was young is what made him one of the greatest 50 swimmers ever. I doubt it.

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #833
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    Interesting use of words “concern” and “experimenting on these 8-12 year olds”. We had no problem back in the 70s and 80s having 8-12 year olds kids going doubles 4-5 times a week, some went 11 workouts a week for weeks on end, espicially 11-12 girls with the big drive for Juniors and no one voiced concern and at that time we had very little science to back up anything we were doing. You just did what everyone else was doing or kinda experimenting.

    I think if you read or reread Dr. Rushall’s you find that he actually was a pretty good plan for the younger swimmers and a MUCH better progression for development and it’s pretty simple: focus on technique, swim fast, refocus on technique, swim fast again and refocus on technique.

    “and obviously Michael Phelps has had lots of success with what he has been doing.” I guess it depends on how you define “success” winning medals then yes. Going faster? The last time he had a best time in the 100 and 200 fly was 09 at WC the 200IM was 2011, again all those hours of training year after year and no improvement?

    “It’s hard to do this with a large workout group. Just my observation.” We currently have 35 age groupers in 6 lanes that are using USRPT protocol and have been able to manage it (didn’t say it was easy). For them it’s really about teaching them the process i.e. focus on technical skill, being accountable for time/numbers and going fast in practice, so when they move up to the senior group that have a pretty solid understanding of what and how things are done.

    Sorry for the long post.

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #834
    Avatarkevin
    Participant

    @oldschoolc: that’s an average of 6 swimmers per lane, that’s luxury to us. We average 9 to 10 swimmers per lane (25m pool), with 1 coach for ±15 swimmers. But we make it work 🙂

    #838
    Avatarswimin
    Participant

    @oldschoolc You proved your point (to me anyway). And thanks for your input it is very well taken and much appreciated.


    @kevin
    Yikes! Lots of kids in the pool, but 1 coach to 15 swimmers is not unusual for bigger teams. If it’s working sounds like you have a good system going.

    #839
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    Billratio,
    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat thru a clinic at Senior Nationals or ASCA Coaches Clinic and heard the stories of “Well Alex Popov, swam the 1500 in under 16 minutes and that he goes 15k a day and he’s a sprinter” They didn’t mention that he trained 3 x a day for max. 1.5hr (not hard to go 5k per workout), they didn’t mention that on days he had great results in practice they went and watched WC soccer on TV and they didn’t do the 2nd or 3rd workout and they never mentioned that about every third day he took off and went to go get a massage. Never mentioned that Touretsky had him do over 100 starts(races) per year each in the 50 and 100 either under competition or practice situations had to be within 3% of LTB to count as good result. Nope just that he did 15k a day and under 16 mimutes in the 1500.

    Got me all fired up! and I have to give a clinic on USRPT this weekend in Fargo, ND.

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #1333
    AvatarGlennGruber
    Participant

    I don’t think Bowman understands USRPT the way Rushall presents it. Dr. Rushall has always said that the USRPT concept has been around a long time. He has shown us the scientific basis of it. Also, Dr. Rushall believes very strongly that the USRPT sets are only one part (i.e. 1/3) of the training. Bowman is correct on this point. But Dr. Rushall emphasizes the technique aspect that must accompany the sets as well as the psychological component of, e.g. building your specific race strategy.

    Bowman does not understand that there is variety in USRPT and the biggest motivator of all, the idea of pushing that first failure of the set farther and farther down the road. That is the daily challenge and for this Masters swimmer, the most exciting part of the set each and every day.

    #1334
    Avatarkevin
    Participant

    Can you point me to a source on “Dr. Rushall believes very strongly that the USRPT sets are only one part (i.e. 1/3) of the training”. I’ve never seen that before and I’m convinced Rushall believes USRPT should be almost 100% of the training…

    #1339
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    kevin,

    I could be wrong but Glenn could be referring to the hierarchy of importance Rushall mentions:
    1)biomechanics(technique)
    2)psychology(mental control)
    3)physiology(conditioning)

    physiology(conditioning) meaning the actual USRPT set itself…..in that case representing 1/3. At least that’s my interpretation of the post

    #1341
    AvatarGlennGruber
    Participant

    Drpaul is correct. The latest paper by Dr Rushall #49, explains this in a little more detail.
    http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/49DEFINED.pdf

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