Do you think USRPT is same as HIT or HIIT?

Home Forums General USRPT Topics Do you think USRPT is same as HIT or HIIT?

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  • #778
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    John Mullen seems to lump them together. I am not so sure.

    http://www.swimmingscience.net/2014/04/HIT-Swimmers.html?m=0#

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #780
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    I think a lot of people lump them together. I think the way some people do certain HIIT sets make them similar to USRPT. But that doesn’t make all HIIT USRPT or all USRPT HIIT. The problem is when people assume USRPT is done at maximal effort. Race Pace doesn’t always mean maximal effort. That is a big difference.

    I have another question. The article said “HIT group only performed ~6,500 yards of high speed training a week. To note, this volume is far less than advocated by USRPT.”

    So how much race pace yards per week is recommended in USRPT?

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #783
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    Not sure much is advocated, but we probably did 7500 yards at race pace during a week.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #786
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    Was the 7500 offered or what they did?

    Last week we had 14,900k at race pace offered and the average was 62.67 or 9,300k (rounding) the swimmers did. We track total offered, total made, % made and volume offered and made.

    There is really no ideal number. This is all SWAG work by Rushall unless you consider an “n of 1” valid (MA). It will be the coaches in the field that put this together and come up with a better understanding. But we have to track everthing right now or we’re no better than the “traditional” way and we may find that USRPT isn’t really any better. Won’t know until we track the data.

    If it’s time, it’s recordable and if it’s recordable, it’s controlable. Control it!

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #787
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    I’ve only started USRPT recently. Right now we’re offering 10,200 yards per week. That’s in 1.5 hours a day 4 days a week. I’ve been recording how much they complete at RP but so far it has varied greatly by swimmer.

    Out of curiosity. How many hours are you practicing a week to get to 14,900 offered?

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #788
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    7500 offered. 55 girls in the pool. Don’t know how much was completed. 3 sets M, W, F. 2 sets T, Th, S. One practice per day. No doubles.

    We didn’t train for 500. Left than to club teams.

    Interested to know how you got to 14K offered.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #789
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    Greg, how many coaches do you have on deck for 55 girls? I’m assuming you’ve had better results with USRPT. Have they been a lot better or is the main benefit that you don’t have to put in the crazy yards of TT?

    How do you set up the training? Does everyone do the same things or do they train for specific events?

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #790
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    We have 5-7 coaches on deck. We had 31 state qualifiers, 12 of those were summer swim league girls. We had 68 percent personal bests at our league meet on top of 75 percent at a mini-taper meet 3 weeks earlier. We had numerous girls with substantial drops. For example, a young lady came into a mid-season week at 108 in fly. Swam 105 on Thurs, then 103 on Sat. She bought in, worked hard and it paid off.

    All practices are tailored to specific races and strokes so, no, we do not all swim the same thing. Our HC is a master organizer during warm-up depending on who is swimming that day. We also shuffle as needed to make lane management less insane. We will swim 11 in a lane for 50s. It may be a mix of freestylers and backstrokers, all lined up by their goal time. It’s insane but we make it work.

    Our girls love it. Hope that answers your questions.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #791
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    Coach Tucker,
    Offering 14.9k is not the hard part, it’s doing 14.9k that’s difficult. At 6 workouts a week that’s only 2.4k per workout, again that’s offered, not made. As a Club Team we also train for the 200s of the stroke, so we do 75s in the USRPT protocol which can bump up RP offered volume.

    We train Monday thru Friday 1.5-2hrs depending on what we need to get done and Saturday mornings 1.5-2hrs. We run 3 USRPT per workout and on some days 4 depending on the group. 1 coach and 22 swimmers, 3 workouts we’re in 6 lanes and 3 we have 8 🙂

    Billratio,
    Your numbers done are going to be all over the place. They will have great days and make over 75% of offered and then they have days that they do 2 of 20. But that is how the system is set up “auto-regulating” I attached one of your recording sheets so you can see they get all over (mainly attendance issues have the greatest impact). We have these for every stroke and distance.It looks like right now that if they can achieve just over 60% offered that speed becomes “race reliable” meaning you can use it to perdict performances, below that and it becomes “iffy” at best.

    I enjoy the conversations

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #792
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    Oldschool, you are new school. Thanks for your response. I, too, am enjoying the conversation.

    Don’t know if you have time, but I would love it if you took a few minutes and waded through the previous topics on this board and gave your perspectives where appropriate.

    Thanks.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #797
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    Thanks Greg and Oldschool for the responses. I agree with Greg, I’d love to hear your input on some other topics.

    Oldschool, when you say that if they can achieve over 60%, are you referring to the specific set or the entire week’s offered yardage. So I’m asking if a swimmer can complete 15 of the 24×50 at 200 RP, does that mean he will likely be able to swim that RP in a 200 in a meet? I’m just curious because if you’re meaning to 60% of offered yards, wouldn’t it mean for someone offering less yardage in a week that they’d have to complete a higher percentage?

    You may have mentioned it already but are you coaching a club or high school team? How many events does your typical swimmer train for?

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #798
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    Club coach, same club 35 years. They train to swim the 50, 100, 200 an occasional 500 free, 100 and 200 of stroke along with 200IM. Don’t have many interested in distance not sure why as they do well when they swim it. Although they don’t like the USRP format for distance, hurts like hell.:)

    The 60% reference or what we call “showing mastery”. It’s of total offered for current point in the season. Look at it like putting money in the bank, you’re “accumulating potential” of your principle so you can earn interest that you can go spend or “utilization of potential”. Just like putting money in savings it takes awhile before it really starts earning enough interest for you to use. So, more mid-season volumes will you be able to use for predicting perfomances. We ask the kids early season to be within 3% of LTB when racing and wait until numbers made come up before we start predictions. So one set, one time is not “mastery” or even over a week. Probably hasn’t accumulated enough potetinal to utilize just yet.

    Hope this helps.

    Side note, anyone else having problems attaching files? I’ve tried pdf and jpeg all well under the 512kb size and nothing seems to work???

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #799
    AvatarGreg Tucker
    Participant

    Old school,

    What parameters do you use for failure and sitting out?

    Miss two race pace reps in a row? Miss three total in a set?

    Once they fail the set, do they go to a recovery lane?

    Back to the 60%… If they can swim 69 percent of the yards offered, are you then confident they can hit their meet goal tunes? I guess I think they must hit 100 percent if their set before they can achieve their meet goal. That is, complete all 24 x 25 at 15 secs every 30 seconds means you should be able to swim 100 or better in a meet.

    I love this stuff.

    Greg Tucker
    #USRPT

    #800
    Avataroldschoolc
    Participant

    Coach Tucker,
    We use 2 in a row or 3 total for set. Yes, they will move to a recovery set once out.

    The system is pretty messy (in a good way) and is some times hard to maintain structure. It’s a little like trying to herd cats.

    100% would be great! We will repeat the same exact workout 3 times in a week so if they were to achieve 100% on all 3 workouts their speed would get adjusted for next week. Our goal is 75% made of total offered for each set. But it realistically turns out to be in the 60% range (they have the most consistent race performances all season) that’s where the 60% reference comes from. That’s why you have to record numbers offered and made. I know you have a lot of swimmers, but pick 5-6 and track them for a while and see what happens. When they race compare race splits to training paces and see if they line up (training vs. race and race vs training). You don’t need to say anything to them just record and observe, let the numbers “talk” to you. I think you will find it interesting.

    Just an observation . Once the swimmers grasp the concept you will see a funny change. They get out after swimming a LTB mid-season and they’re all happy and then they realize that their training paces just got faster. You hear “oh crap my 50s have to be faster”

    "Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"

    #801
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    That is helpful. This is all super interesting.

    One more clarification on the 60% thing. Are you saying they have to hit 60% of everything for the week or just 60% of their 500free race pace sets in order to achieve their 500RP in a meet?

    You say you offer the same set three different times per week. And I think you said earlier that you do 3 sets per day, 6 days a week. So do most of your swimmers train for 6 different events? Does every week look pretty much the same for your team as far as the USRPT sets?

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

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