Failure quirk?

Home Forums General USRPT Topics Failure quirk?

  • This topic has 4 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by AvatarRick.
Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3087
    AvatarAlanP
    Participant

    Anybody experience something like this? I start off a set (usually, 100s at 1650 free target pace), struggle through the first 5, will manage to make a few more until failure at say, 10 or 11. Take the rest interval, and then I actually find I’m going well below the target time for some of the next 10 or so, and after 2nd failure/rest (at about 20), I can often get to 25 (my current upper limit due to time constraints, not necessarily having a 3rd failure). I swim first thing in the morning, so I wonder if the early problems are just a warmup/pre-set speed drill issue…

    Any thoughts?

    AlanP


    ? AP

    #3089
    Avatardoc
    Participant

    AlanP,
    Interesting question. Years and I mean years ago. I had my distance kids swim with HR monitors on and they would do 30 x 100 on 1:10, noticed the same thing. HR would be high and struggle a bit through the first 5 to 7 minutes, then HRs would become steady along with pace in just about the same time frame you explain and then after 20 minutes or so we would actually see a drop in HR and lower number of cycles used to cover then same time. They would say “if I can get through the first 6-7, I’ll make everyone.

    One thought I had was at about 20 minutes of activity the body shifts to using fat as an energy source. Its more efficient, therefore the reduction/efficiency in energy output. So the cycles and HR drops.

    This was one explanation by exercise physiologist of the “2nd Wind” in running which occurred usually in that 20+ minute range. Not really sure if that’s it. But did sound reasonable based on an understand of physiology.

    Doc


    ? I child proofed my house and they still get in 🙂

    #3090
    Avatarjuddy_009
    Participant

    I am a 50/100 swimmer but on my 100 sets I have the same thing in that I’ll really struggle the first 6 reps (maybe make 3/6) then I’ll take a quick break and come back with say 8 reps before my next fail followed by 8 again . I know this isn’t strictly in the protocol but I’ve been experimenting with a couple of things to avoid this start of set ‘lag’.
    1) I do a 50 metre pace set beforehand to ‘wake up’ the nervous system. This normally looks like 8*25 @ 2 minutes rest @ 50 metre pace. I use a tempo trainer to enable exact recording of how many I make. I allow a 5-10 minute break between this set and my 100 pace set with a limited amount of swimming off (100-200 max). This has been somewhat successful, however there is still a small lag at the beginning of the 100 pace set that follows while I ‘find my rhythm’ as I often do my 50 pace in a different stroke (I train for all 4 strokes).
    2) I do some ‘above pace work’ on increased rest. This is normally around 0.5 second faster that my normal pace but with the same breathing pattern and stroke count. Example: my 100 pace for free is 13.7 (25m), my above pace would be 13.2. I would do this on 1:2 or 1:3 work rest ratio while using my breaks to watch my u/w video of the repeats I have just done (I use an Ipad in a lifeproof case). In this way when I start the set the 13.7 feels ‘easy’ when I start the set and I have an idea of any specific technique elements I need to focus on throughout the set, particularly as I begin to fatigue. I wouldn’t do more than 200 metres at ‘above pace’ to ensure I don’t take any fatigue into the set (the increased work/rest ratio helps with this as well).
    I normally use both of these to help avoid the ‘failure lag’ you are talking about. The other thing I would recommend is if possible you should try to train in the afternoon rather than the morning. I can’t find the research article I read about this, but I did read something about the best time of the day to train/compete being between 2 pm-8pm due to circadian rhythms, core body temperature etc. Personally I have dropped morning sessions to train only once a day as I felt it was negatively impacting my recovery (I work full time) and my morning performance was much lower than my afternoon performance. I know there will be times when I need to swim heats in the morning but the earliest they start is 9 am whereas if I train it has to be 6.30 am at the latest. Anyway something to think about. Happy for others to feedback with thoughts/ideas on what I’ve written.

    #3091
    AvatarAlanP
    Participant


    2) I do some ‘above pace work’ on increased rest. This is normally around 0.5 second faster that my normal pace but with the same breathing pattern and stroke count. Example: my 100 pace for free is 13.7 (25m), my above pace would be 13.2. I would do this on 1:2 or 1:3 work rest ratio while using my breaks to watch my u/w video of the repeats I have just done (I use an Ipad in a lifeproof case). In this way when I start the set the 13.7 feels ‘easy’ when I start the set and I have an idea of any specific technique elements I need to focus on throughout the set, particularly as I begin to fatigue. I wouldn’t do more than 200 metres at ‘above pace’ to ensure I don’t take any fatigue into the set (the increased work/rest ratio helps with this as well).
    I normally use both of these to help avoid the ‘failure lag’ you are talking about. The other thing I would recommend is if possible you should try to train in the afternoon rather than the morning. I can’t find the research article I read about this, but I did read something about the best time of the day to train/compete being between 2 pm-8pm due to circadian rhythms, core body temperature etc. Personally I have dropped morning sessions to train only once a day as I felt it was negatively impacting my recovery (I work full time) and my morning performance was much lower than my afternoon performance. I know there will be times when I need to swim heats in the morning but the earliest they start is 9 am whereas if I train it has to be 6.30 am at the latest. Anyway something to think about. Happy for others to feedback with thoughts/ideas on what I’ve written.

    Your “above pace” idea sounds promising–think I’ll give it a try. And I also would prefer end of day, but the pool I use doesn’t have lap swimming in the late afternoon (water aerobics, or some such…


    ? AP

    #3097
    AvatarRick
    Participant

    I have noticed this in the 50’s with my stronger male swimmers. We actually talk about just getting through the first 5 or 6 reps with no more than 1 miss. If they can do that, they know they will probably have a good set. The second wind explanation makes sense to me since I can’t figure out why this is happening. Doesn’t happen with my girls or boys with less muscle mass. Hmmm.

Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.