Teams first full USRPT practice & some questions?

Home Forums General USRPT Topics Teams first full USRPT practice & some questions?

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #908
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    So our short course season is over & I am using the summer to implement USRPT with a few swimmers to learn the system & work out the kinks in hopes to fully implement with the entire team. As of now, I am only working with 3 swimmers (which is nice). All age groupers coming off a great short course season & still in shape. Last night was our first full USRPT practice & we loved it!!! I spent quite a bit of time explaining things and our goal the first week or so is just to get use to the nuances (esp the clock). After 200 warm up, we went 30 x 50’s from the block at 200 individual pace (with fails & recoveries. Then what amounted to a 10 min total rest, then went 40 x 25’s with fails & recoveries. Easy warm down & we were out. So…the questions:

    1) getting use to the clock is a bear (1 analog at ea end). I couldn’t keep them from coming into the wall with their head up. Anyone consider a watch?
    2) which 50 pace should they be using? front, middle, back? are you trying to keep splits the same?
    3)how do you pick what to train for? ask the kids which 3 or 4 events & then work on those?
    4)were are going to go 4 days a week & try to get 3-4sets per practice in. Do you think that is sufficient?

    I love this style of training & so do they. I’m grateful this forum is here

    Paul

    #911
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    I can only answer number 2. I don’t think you pick a specific pace. Just divide the 200 time by 4 you’re if doing 50s. I think that’s what you were asking.

    Why are you doing them off the blocks? It seems like it would be hard to keep the rest to 20 seconds if they are climbing out and doing a start each time.

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #912
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    Yea, dividing it by 4 was how we did it. It seemed to work ok but I’m still unsure about splits that are different (back/front).

    I believe I’ve seen them done off the blocks before. I only had the 3 swimmers & each had their own lane. It was a choice at 200 pace. Once they came in and made their time it only took 5sec to get out & back up so it seemed to work alright. Unless I totally messed something up.

    I could see how multiples in a lane could mess that up though

    Paul

    #913
    AleksswimAleksswim
    Member

    I think your introduction to USRPT is too demanding for your kids. If you keep with these number of reps after a few days they will be completely exhausted.
    Dr Rushall has anticipated this situation and proposed a protocol to introducing kids to this type of training.

    I think the number of repetitions should be reduced and first find out what the are the right target times for each kid individually and then gradually increase number of repetitions.
    Start from the block in set of 50’s is not connected with situation from particular 200 m race. There is only one start from the block and three underwater works.
    It takes up to mimic the situation in specific disciplines, which means do perfectly every underwater from the wall.
    Also, the rest of 20 seconds should be used to maximized preparation for the next repetition (which includes trainer’s suggestions for technique corrections)

    #914
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    Yea, I thought about it the next day as far as the 50’s from the blocks. I’ll keep those in the water as to enhance the underwaters. We seemed to have plenty of time to discuss technique corrections though.

    I’ll head to warning and reduce the reps but it didn’t seem like we did much at all. 2 sets in an hour (of which they may have swam completed 800yrds). I added time to their pace to ease it up a bit so they get use to it. We had around a half hour of rest/recovery/discussion. They had fun & left the pool with more energy than ever.

    Still wondering if getting in 3-4sets 4days/wk is sufficient? It may take us a month to get there but just wondering.

    #915
    AleksswimAleksswim
    Member

    Brent Rushall: “An immediate total change is unwise because the energy capacities developed in traditional training only partially transfer to USRPT. Traditionally-trained swimmers have difficulty in coping with
    a full USRPT program. The best alternative would be to introduce USRPT incrementally to replace traditional training items.”

    1. In the first week, program one USRPT set per session.
    2. In the second week, program two USRPT sets for half the training sessions and one for the remaining sessions.
    3. In the third week, program two USRPT sets for all training sessions
    4. In the fourth week, program three USRPT sets for half the training sessions making them the only serious content in those sessions.
    5. In the fifth week, program three USRPT sets for all sessions. If fatigue appears to accrue over the first several days, introduce skills training (e.g., turns, dives, double-leg kicking) as lower stress time-consuming relevant activities as replacements for some of the
    USRPT sets.
    6. From the sixth week on, dedicate the whole program to three or four USRPT sets per session with skills training spread throughout the week.

    Rushall: “The introduction of USRPT experiences to replace traditional training activities should be gradual but the progress of swimmers during the allocated time will be quite variable. The coach will have to accommodate those who tire easily as much as those who are not challenged enough in the initial introductory attempts.”

    #917
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    Thanks Aleksswim,

    I failed to mention that the kids that I’m working with ended the season with some USRPT work albeit not 100% like now.

    We will definitely take our time & work up to it. In the meantime, if your practice is 90min & you did 1 set or even 2, what in the world do you do the rest of the time!! 🙂 esp, given Dr. Rushall doesn’t want drill work done.

    I suppose I could reduce the practice time for now

    Any ideas of what races to work on for them? Do I just pick their top 3 events or so & use those?

    thanks again,

    Paul

    #919
    billratiobillratio
    Participant

    Thanks Aleksswim. I fear i may have introduced full USRPT too quickly to my group. We are 3 and a half weeks in so I’m not sure it’d be worth it to pull back now. Is it just too hard on the muscles that they haven’t used very much?

    drpaul, another reason to do the repeats from a push is the start makes them faster. If they can get do their average 50 time from a push then when they get to the meet and get to use the blocks at the start, there will be an improvement of time. I can’t find the quote right now but Rushall talked about it. 🙂

    "Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."

    #920
    Avatarwordofmouth
    Participant

    drpaul, I think your question of what to do between sets is good one and an important one.

    To me these spaces are opportunities to teach as well as work on race skill like starts turns etc.

    Rushall’s resistance to drills is mainly for elite swimmers. I think most of us have kids who can benefit from drills as a way to at least call attention to aspects of the stroke that you want them to work on at race pace.
    Also slower swimming works as both a recovery and, again, as a way to try a skill under less stressful conditions before trying to perform it under the stress of their main set.
    I agree with Rushall that doing stroke work at slow speeds and doing drills in the traditional way are not going to lead to stroke improvement at the desired speed. But they can set the tone.
    I think it is a great time to do a lot of Boomer/Nelms kind of stuff as well. Let them work on qualities like
    tone, torque management, breathing etc. that they will need to use instinctually when racing.

    And, of course, there’s always my kids favorite…. the social kick! I always feel like I am giving up valuable time when I do that but sometimes it’s exactly what the kids need and is an opportunity to joke around with them a bit yourself.

    #921
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    wom…..great points

    I guess my concern were drills taking away from the recovery but I could keep them to a minimum instead of the old drill style (4×100 fingertip drags!!)

    I do know that even after only 1 practice I loved being able to interact as much as I wanted with them about swim, racing, technique, etc… instead of making sure we got enough crap yardage in!!

    I don’t guess these kids are elite (yet) but they all made states, sectionals and are close to jr nat cuts.

    I’ll keep working on it…

    #925
    Avatarcrmejean
    Participant

    Great discussion! In addition to the implementation process, Rushall’s paper #47 “Step by Step USRPT Planning” is a great resource. We started doing a classroom training on technique for a specific stroke before we get in the water. We work on that technique after warm-up. We then do 2-3 USRPT sets with recoveries inbetween and then warm-down. Our sets are 3-5 times the distance of the event. To decide what events to train, I developed a spreadsheet. I have all events listed. The next two columns indicate which swimmers are entering those events in the next two meets. I then have a column for each swimmer for each day of the week. Keep in mind I only have three swimmers to track. I color code each block for the race we are training. This helps me visualize what I need to train next. We typically repeat sets two days in a row. This week, we approached it from an IM standpoint. We did BR/FR two days, distance freestyle today, and will do Fly/BK the next two days. Monday started with technique. Tuesday, we did our two sets, then the third set was 12-50s BR/FR. I used their IM splits to set targets. They did 25 BR & 25 FR. My kids loved this set and felt practicing the turns was very helpful. I will increase this set to 16-50s next time, and then probably alternate that with 20-50s depending on the distance of the other sets. Today we did 100s to train for the 1500. Tomorrow and Friday, we will do the same with Fly and BK as we did with BR and FR. On my spreadsheet, I record the percentage of made reps and the target. I have found that giving my 13 year old a 98-99% target and my 10 year olds 95-98% targets works well. At 93%, they just were not able to make any. It was demoralizing. We have 3 1/2 weeks until our next meet and another two weeks before the one after that. I can plan to make sure we hit all of the events. I also keep in mind what Rushall says about repeating the specific event sets close together.

    #929
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    crmejean…..that’s awesome. There’s a sm classroom at our pool facility where you can use video, etc. & I’m wanting to video our swimmers then spend some time before or even after practice to look at their strokes & then compare them to elite swimmers that we are trying to emulate.

    I like the IM workout. I’m assuming it’s at 200 pace?

    would love to see those forms 🙂

    Paul

    #930
    Avatarcrmejean
    Participant

    Video is a great tool. My kids never believe they are making basic technique mistakes until I show them. Being able to show it and immediately get them back in the pool is great. Our former team had an awesome camera and video system – movable above and below the water. They did not utilize it as most parents had hoped. One thing they were supposed to do was make a DVD of each swimmer with the VoiceOver from the coach pointing out things to work on. The plan was to add to it every couple of months to help the kids see how they were progressing and what they still needed to accomplish. I would kill for them to have done that. Technique is our most difficult aspect since I never swam. I use my iPad to show them poolside and occasionally do actual video that we upload to computer to be able to put it on a big screen at home.

    Yes, the IM set was at 200 pace.

    I will try to upload my tracking forms when I can get to my computer.

    My 10 year olds tend to try to sprint everything while the 13 year old gets pacing. Is this a maturity as a swimmer thing, or is there something I can do to help them get it? My 10 year old will swim his first 1500 in July. I don’t want him to die. He did his first 800 in April in 12:00.

    #931
    Avatardrpaul
    Participant

    I thinks it’s maturity & experience. About 100% of our 10&u sprint everything. I’ve done 1 of 2 things. 1) use an older kid to pace them, 2) stick the tempo trainer under their cap 🙂

    #934
    Avatarcrmejean
    Participant

    drpaul

    Here is the form I am using. I have been revising it as I see ways to improve it. The week of the 5th is the first week that I felt decent about it. We are still trying to get the hang of when to do a recovery and when to abandon a set. I have not started tracking those. If they miss two in a row, they kick or do an easy swim and get back to it.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by DenajDenaj.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.