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I should’ve been more clear before, I was asking how to RACE a longer event. Like “fly and die” or “build the 100s,” which is my I put in my times/splits. I forgot I’ve already told you guys more than enough about how I swim 🙂 Since I only train for the 50s and 100s at the moment, (adding the 200s next season,) I just signed up for the sake of swimming them again, not looking for PBs. The meet was this past weekend, it went as to be expected for not training those events. I had fun swimming something different anyway.
I’d like to ask you some questions about VO2max. I started learning about it a few months ago, but couldn’t find that much info.
~ So VO2max is the “aerobic base.” That means it should be built up in the “pre-season” (Aug-Oct & Mar-May) and maintained through the competition season?
~ How long does it take to develop the “base?” The longer the better or does it have a limit of how much it will improve?
~ You said 40-60 sec work / 20 sec rest. Is this THE sweet spot or does a set just need the same ratio?
~ Everything I’ve seen has been a 1:1 work to rest ratio. Does this also work?
~ Is there any way to tell if your really at 100% VO2max? (without testing equipment) It should be the speed you can hold for 5 min, correct?
Sorry for not being more clear, thank you for the reply.
It’s been about 4 months now since I asked for advice with my shoulder/arm pain. I’ve had to change a lot of my training lately, but I can happily say that I haven’t had any “issues” since I started doing the warmup you suggested. Thank You.
I’m not sure if what I do is “real” dynamic stretching, it’s mostly just a lot of swinging my limbs around. Whatever it is, I always feel better after I do it.
I always do the legs first, right after I get my cap and goggles situated.
10x Swings, first R leg forward and back, then L, then R leg going right to left, then L leg left to right, 40 swings total.
While standing on one leg, I do some ankle rolls, clockwise then counter clockwise.
Finally, also while on one leg, I’ll hold the other leg out in front of me at a 90 degree ankle, with the knee also bent at 90 degrees, and then kick the lower half of my leg back, as if trying to kick the back of my thigh. I do this 4 times per leg. This helps loosen up my always tight thighs.
8x Michael Phelps swings
4x Backstroke arms, 4 R, 4 L, then 4 double.
8x swings where I start with my arm by my side, then I bring it straight up and then bend at the elbow to bring my hand down to touch my opposite shoulder.
4 more MP swings, and then I get in for warmup, which is~
100 FR cruise, 4×25 IM order Hard, 3×25 with a 8 stroke sprint breakout, 1×25 easy, then 2 starts, not with any dolphin kicks or anything, just getting off the block and gliding.
I forgot to mention that these practices are Mon-Fri, + just the A.M. sets on Sat.
Thank you both for your input, sorry for the delayed response.
I’ve been messing around with this in practice for a few weeks now, and have found out a few things.
1. Like Gary, every 4 is fastest for me, but i completely die after a couple of 25s on a min.
2. Breathing every stroke is slightly slower, but my legs can hold on through an entire set.
3. Every 3 feels the most balanced and smooth, but I have to deal with my weaker left arm and I still die early on.
I haven’t tried the 4-2 combo yet, I wanted to have a couple of weeks just to test 4, 3, and 2 by themselves.
When I train with using every 4 or 2, I alternate L & R by 50, to try and save my shoulders.
Ryanupper, do you believe there is a difference between SCY and LCM breathing wise? I’m underwater much more in SC, is it possible that one needs to breathe more often in order to make up for having less strokes? Or maybe it’s the opposite because 100 LCM is a great deal longer than 100 SCY.
I’ll keep messing around with it, eventually something will stick 🙂
Here is the 50 FL info
DKs: 13, 9.
Splits: 11.7, 13.8.
15m. Time: 6.8, 8.4.
Strokes per 25: 6, 9.
Stroke Tempo: 0.96, 1.02.
I found some better video. I couldn’t find a usable 100 FL, so I took a 50 FL from August instead. The time was 25.55
DK tempo By 25
50 FR: 0.35, 0.39.
50 FL: 0.30, 0.36.
100 FR: 0.32, 0.40, 0.39, 0.41.
100 BK: 0.40, 0.47, 0.48, 0.50.
I counted each kick as starting and ending on the “Down” kick, so each one is Up & Down.
I don’t have any real reason for pushing off the wall so deep, I just haven’t had a reason not to. I’ll see if I can find some better footage to time the kicks.
This past winter/spring my Dad and I ran some 200s for time. Always just one, at the beginning of practice after warmup. I’d say we did like, 5 of them total, and they were always on 2.01, so I think I would be in the 1.56.00 range in a race.
I’m notoriously slow at in practice races, so 5 sec is realistic for me.
Thank you both very much.
I apologize if I am asking a lot of questions, I truly love this sport and I just want to be the very best I can be.
I promise I don’t plan on going off the deep end and changing everything overnight, my focus is on my underwaters. Once I’m happy with those I’ll move on to something else that needs work.
Doc, I tried to get the info you asked for. I wasn’t able to get kick tempo from the videos, the camera was too far away.
For stroke tempo, I took it as each time a hand entered the water for the catch, so Right, Left, Right, Left.
For # of strokes, I also took this as Right, Left, Right, Left. Except FL of course.
Also, when I said 7.0 for 15m before, that was just my times from practice. I hadn’t ever timed it in my races before.
From March 2018
100 FL: 57.82
Splits by 25: 11.9, 15.0, 15.7, 15.1.
Time to 15m mark: 6.7. ( could only get the first one, bad video.)
Strokes per 25: 5, 6, 7, 7.
Stroke Tempo by 25: 1.1, 1.2, 1.2, 1.2.
From November 2018
100 FR: 52.82
Splits by 25: 11.5, 13.8, 14.1, 13.4.
Time to 15m mark: 6.6, 7.8, 8.5, 8.2.
Strokes per 25: 8, 14, 14, 15.
Stroke Tempo by 25: 0.5, 0.6, 0.65, 0.6.
100 BK: 58.54
Splits by 25: 13.6, 14.8, 15.6, 14.5.
Time to 15m mark: 8.0, 8.3, 9.2, 8.5.
Strokes per 25: 9, 9, 12, 10.
Stroke Tempo by 25: 0.6, 0.7, 0.7, 0.6.
50 FR: 23.72
Splits by 25: 11.3, 12.4.
Time to 15m mark: 6.5, 7.4.
Strokes per 25: 10, 15.
Stroke tempo by 25: o.4, o.5.
Please tell me if there is any more information that could be useful.
Right now with my underwaters, I kind of start the dolphin motion at my fingertips, and my whole body does a sort of wave motion. It’s more noticeable in Fly. I usually push off deep, like 3.5 feet. My legs feel like they are pushing water up and down, not really backwards. I guess I have some stuff to work on 🙂
I haven’t raced a 200 FR in over 2 years. My PB is from when I was 13. 2.01.70. Last time I raced it I was 14, 2.04. My mother decided I should stop doing it, apparently I was embarrassing her by going so slow…. I plan on doing one later this year, just to see how it goes. I don’t really know how I should train for it though, any suggestions?
I’ve never done a 200 FL or BR, 400 IM, or the Mile. Haven’t done 200 BK in forever. I only do 100 BR and 200 IM at pentathlon meets.
Hello ryanupper. On the FR & FL underwaters I can tell you i do lose speed with every lap, and that is why I lowered the number of DKs I do on the FL. It used to be 14 off every wall. My best time came when I did 14,12,12,12. I’m trying to find a balance between having air to do the DKs well, and having enough of them, because they are faster than my actual FL.
My 15m underwater time is 7.0-7.1 whenever we test it, usually with 15 DKs or so. When I get tired my DKs get really big, beluga whale style.
On the 100 FR I’ve had a hard time trying to figure out how many DKs I should be doing. I lose a lot of air on my flip turn, and I can’t wear a nose clip like I do in the 50 FR, so i’m left with a lot less air than I would like.
Any suggestions on how many kicks might be good? Should I add some more back to the FL?
Thank you for your response. My splits from my 100 FR PB of 52.82 were 25.32 & 27.50. When I swam it in August it was 52.89, with splits of 25.56 & 27.33.
We used to switch around the sets, but I found that I like doing the 50s set last. That way I’m a little fatigued already, so it feels more like the 2nd 50 of a 100. Just a personal preference. Every once in a while we will still switch them up. Also, the 50s sets really kill my legs, where as the 25 sets don’t. Doing the 50s first guarantees I will have a slow 25s set, but it’s not true the other way around. Maybe that’s just me.
We just started adding in the short rest sets again a few weeks ago, and we’ve been trying to establish times in the 25s before really getting into the 50s. When we used to do the 50s on :50 set, (I think it was sometime last winter,) I could hold them all on 28 mid, so I assume I would be around there or faster. We also used to do a 50s on :10 sec rest, and I could hold 29 mid-high for 10 of ’em without terrible difficulty.
I’m just curious, where did you come up with the time of 30.86 for the 50s on :50? Is it a percentage over the split?
I had a meet this weekend. I was sick, (still am,) overtired, unshaved, and wearing a normal suit. I guess I was kinda still tapered from the meet I had the week before that, but not really. It was prelims on Sat, finals on Sun.
P 100 FL: 1.00.75
F 100 FL: 1.00.62
P 100 BK: 1.03.26
F 100 BK: 1.01.87
P 50 FR: 24.88
F 50 FR: 25.08
Here are my swims from the previous weekend. I was suited, shaved, and tapered. It was 100 FR on Sat, 50 & BK on Sun.
100 FR: 52.82
50 FR: 23.72
11.3/12.5 guestimate from the video
100 BK: 58.54
When I race, I take off a few DKs, otherwise I would be over the 15m. Here they are by race, by ~
50 FR: 13,10.
100 FR: 13,10,8,8.
100 BK: 14,13,13,13.
100 FL: 13,10,8,8.
How do I know when my DKs are hurting me more than helping me? I know more is better in BK because my stroke is bad, but it’s hard to tell for FR and FL. Also, what do you think of my splits from the first (faster) meet? Am I too slow out? Add too much on the way back?
I would like your opinion on my practice times. I think that based on them, I am not performing up to my potential.
I only have data for the long rest sets right now, the short sets are too new for me to have usable information.
My Dad times me most of the time. He starts the watch when my feet leave the wall or AS he says “GO” if its from the blocks.He stops it when my hand or foot hits the wall, or in the case of the 25s FL on 1, when my feet leave the wall after the turn. For cut times, when I make a whole set, (with up to 2 fails,) we then drop the time so that I would have failed 3. Everything but the 5×25 is with fails.
This is all from the past 2 weeks of training. All SCY
5×25 FR on Full Rest. From the pool I’ve been at 11.2 – 11.4, with some at 11.1. From the Blocks I’ve been at 11.6 – 11.9.
20×25 FR on 1 with flip. My current cut time is 12.4, I think I’ve gotten up to 12 including 3 fails.
10×50 FR on 2. Cut time is 26.15. It was 26.25, but I made those with only 2 fails last week.
20×25 FL on 1 with turn. Cut time is 13.7. It was 13.85 last week, but I made those with no fails. Just a note, my average turn time is 1.4 sec.
10×50 FL on 2. Cut time is 28.3. I made 28.4 last week with 2 fails.
20×25 BK on 1 with flip. Cut is 13.3. Made 13.4 last week with no fails.
10×50 BK on 2. Cut is 28.9. I think I’ve gotten up to 9 with 3 fails.
Here are my times March 2017 VS. Now ~
* = Not suited or tapered
50 FR: 25.41 ~ 23.72
50 BK: 28.39 ~ 26.48
50 FL: 27.06 ~ 25.55
100 FR: 56.38 ~ 52.82
100 BK: 1.05.74 ~ 58.54
100 FL: 1.02.00 ~ 57.82
100 BR: 1.26.51* ~ 1.22.13*
200 IM: 2.26.88* ~ 2.23.56*