ryanupper
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Ok good you’re on the right track. Some athletes need a different psychological approach/mindset.
Looking at research from a lot of different sports and training methods it appears that if you keep changes under 5% you’ll minimize technical degradation. Loaded running and sled pushing shows that when resistance/drag increases more than 10% there are significant changes in how the athlete performs the motion.
If you use a drag suit with an athlete making 20 reps and they hold the target pace for 10-15 with maybe 1 more stroke per 25 then you’re probably fine. Maybe even increase the interval time by :5 when you introduce the suit. I wouldn’t have them train the whole session in a suit either. Just use it for the event that is progressing to the added resistance. When you decrease the target time get rid of the suit for a microcycle.
Jared,
You’re pretty much nailing every issue. I can see you’ve read most of the literature a few times.
Running segregated practices at that age won’t get you great data due to the kids’ adolescent growth. Rushall talks about this a few times.
The 5-7 times volume rule for 50-100-200 events should be adhered to when possible. Athlete A was definitely putting power ahead of pace volume and Athlete B will probably get more aggressive as he ages up.
One thing you didn’t mention: The less efficient the technique is, the more it shows as the distance grows. Athlete A might be “powering” through sets without improving efficiency (distance per stroke). I would start monitoring stroke counts during pace sets. Probably check on repetition 6 and 12 (or as she nears failure) and analyze over time. If she’s simply improving speed by adding strokes then it will catch up to her in a race.
Stress is induced (easiest to hardest): increase volume, decrease interval time, increase distance (25y to 25m if available), and then increase speed. You can simulate increased distance by wearing drag suits while maintaining the target pace. Don’t use drag suits every practice, use as a transition between high volume and increased speed.
You’re on the right track.
Ryan
USRPT-Gold Coaching candidate
Apparently the only person on this siteIt’s good that you started with the 200 but you need to keep plugging in 200 sets twice a week. I would plug them in on your Mon/Wed sprint days. This is also your opportunity to work on turns 100% VO2max Development Concepts
Everything else is correctly structured based on the 50m manual. If you aren’t going from the blocks then try to do that 1-2 times a week. I would plug in 6 x 25 @100 pace on a :40-:45 before starting the sprints. This acts as a bit of a primer to activate your muscle and raise your heart rate. If you want to get more sprint yardage in you can also do 20m sprints, 5m glide to the wall. You can probably do these on a 1:00-1:20.
Don’t bother with surface kick sets, just focus on short and fast without overkicking. No noodle legs. For underwater double-leg kick, warm up with 6-8 x 25’s trying to kick underwater to half as fast as possible, tight streamline, then moderate surface swim to the wall. This can replace some of your 400m warmup.
Always integrate a technique item from the manual into the set. This is a core lesson of USRPT. I haven’t done a “drill” set in 5 years. I don’t recommend dryland only because I don’t know what your level of training and explaining a proper dryland program is too complex for this forum. Stretch after your warmup and before your main pace sets.
Since you seem to be in pretty good shape and your times are in the experienced catergory I’ll give you one more option. The “Go” swim. After your 50’s @200 or 25’s @100 set take 2 minutes of rest. Then try to hold that same pace for as long as possible; for 200 pace this might be 100-125m, for 100 pace this might be 50-75m. Take 2 mintutes of rest and go again. Only hold the target pace, when you slow down/get tired then stop.
At slower paces, you rely on different body roll and stroke cycle timing. This is just something you need to train to feel comfortable with. Watch Sun Yang swim the 1500 versus almost anyone swimming a 100. Ledecky has great arm mechanics with a high stroke rate but poor body mechanics so she’s not an ideal example.
I don’t even like calling it a “base”. Bases don’t move. Your 100% VO2 will increase with training. It’s your maximum liters-per-minute of oxygen that can be processed by your entire metabolic architecture. Let’s say you’re at 4.0 liters/min at the beginning of the season – you might get to 4.5 l/m after 3-4 weeks of training. It will take months to years to reach your current maximum.
If you’re still in decent shape after a short break then about 8-12 sessions will get you back to a good training volume. Your maximum l/m is limited by body type and training experience as a growing adolescent. It can be increased long-term but we’re talking years of consistent training into your 20’s.
Nothing in USRPT is based on a ratio. The 1:1 in literature refers to the 100 pace intervals but even that isn’t really how you want to program them. The ideal rest period is 22 seconds for repeats slower than sprints but we can use up to 25 seconds for our swim pace clocks. When you work faster than your 100 pace the rest starts increasing up to a few minutes. I usually do 20-yard sprints using a 60-90 seconds interval depending on how I feel and how many I want to do. So even if you’re doing 200’s on your 1650 pace you keep the rest under 22 seconds. As you transition in your microcycles, you want to decrease the rest period before increasing your speed. N x 25’s @100 pace (:15) on :40 goes to [:15 on a :35] before [:14 on a :40]. Going faster is harder than decreasing rest.
Generally, the speed you can doing anything for 5-6 minutes is your VO2max for that exercise. Will be different for swim, run, bike, row, ski, etc. This is because VO2 is based on the architecture of the working muscles as well as your respiratory muscle. If you never run then your VO2max for running (legs) won’t be great.
Liv,
I’ll repost some distance info from other threads below. I looked back on your posts; have you been using the technical guide? http://brentrushall.com/macro/index.htm
For distance training, you need to increase your index of coordination. You’ve been using a high stroke rate and need to slow it down, which is hard and takes time. You’ll also need to start focusing on consistent strokes per lap. Based on the past posts, your underwater double leg kick is fatiguing your legs and you should decrease your time underwater. Also, if your legs are tiring during distance you are kicking too much. Remember, kicking in freestyle is to control pitch and roll, not propulsion. Katie Ledecky and Sun Yang use 1-beat kicks to rotate to their breathing side.
From previous threads:
VO2max training is gaining traction in other sports but is still poorly designed in most programs. No matter which events you swim, VO2max is critically important to the amount of quality training you can accomplish and to general recovery. 100% VO2max is also a weird term in physiology; it doesn’t actually represent the highest effort you can achieve but relates to all the energy systems working at maximum capacity at any given time — respiratory muscle, the heart, the vascular system, muscle oxygenation, oxidation cycle, phosphagen regeneration, glycogen usage, and gluconeogenesis. Below 100% only aerobic capacity is heavily stressed; above 100% only anaerobic capacity is heavily stressed (there are differences in trained and untrained populations).
The general structure of a USRPT set is based on aerobic development through anaerobic stress using intervals which may improve VO2max. The only thing missing is an exact point where we can stress 100% VO2max. Events under 200y/m (for experienced swimmers) are all executed well above 100% VO2max. 200’s are probably in the 110-130% range, 100’s in the 150-160% zone, and 50’s are sprint efforts.
Just as every other USRPT concept focuses on specificity, in order to improve 100% VO2max we must train in the 100% zone. For trained athletes, a continuous high-effort lasting 5-6 minutes will plateau VO2 for about 4 minutes. From research, an elite athlete running a mile in 4 minutes will be at or above 100% VO2max for about 2 minutes and peaks at about 107%. But because these are continuous efforts to failure they are very hard to repeat during a training session.
2-4 minutes of stress is not enough time to change the delivery system. In order to induce adaptations to our energy delivery architecture, we really should apply stress for 12-18 minutes. We tested a couple of program designs on an electronic stationary bike. :60 work/:20 rest worked fairly well but progressive overload to :72 work/15: rest probably fell well outside our desired range. :40 work/:20 rest with overload to :48/:12 seemed to keep the training in the desired zone.
So, it seems that 50’s @ 200 pace, :30/:20 is a little too fast and (for me) 100’s @ 500 pace 1:10/:20 is a little too slow. The optimal 100% zone is probably obtained using 75’s. :49-50/:20 as long as I can do at least 11 repetitions and preferably 16 before changing a variable. Find the :40-:60 second distance/intensity combination the athlete can maintain for at least 12 minutes before failure. Try to keep rest under 22 seconds. Also, I don’t think multiple failures are really beneficial for this training session. In the cycling tests, we never did more than 1 failure and progression was consistent. Save the anaerobic energy for the event relevant sets.
Training in the 100% zone just means the athlete is optimizing VO2max development which will improve their ability to train at every other pace. This is the much sought after “aerobic base”. Any other pace used as “aerobic base” training is LESS efficient.
After building initial VO2max the athlete can transition to race-specific paces and sets focused on technical development but I would maintain a VO2max session 1-2 times a week throughout a macrocycle. Again, just 12-18 minutes will induce adaptations to the weakest point in the architecture.
——Break—–With the pro swim series starting up again there are a lot of athlete interviews describing their training. Ashley Twichell, an elite distance and open water swimmer, noted she swam “27k” in the 2 days leading up to the event. While stating your “work volume” is still a badge of honor among swimmers, even sprinters, the act of swimming a high volume describes little about the quality of the training sessions.
Some distance training concepts have been explored in USRPT literature and on this forum. This post will consolidate and add some newer insights into the discussion. From an earlier post:
“Just as every other USRPT concept focuses on specificity, in order to improve 100% VO2max we must train in the 100% zone. For trained athletes, a continuous high-effort lasting 5-6 minutes will plateau VO2 for about 4 minutes. From research, an athlete running a mile in 4 minutes will be at or above 100% VO2max for about 2 minutes and peaks at about 107%. But because these are continuous efforts to failure they are very hard to repeat during a training session.”
And a reply to a question about distance training:
“1) The velocity change between the 800m and 1500m LCM events, for high-level athletes, is about 2%. I will assume another 2-3% change to the 3k for this. For ref, the speed change from 100 LCM to 50 LCM is 12% for men and 9% for women.
2) Technique is tied to speed. However, a 2-3% speed difference for a long event might not be mechanically noticeable for most recreational athletes.
3) marathon runners need to condition their bodies for ground impact as well as the energy cost of running forward. Swimmers don’t have impact issues so you only need to train for energy costs of moving through water. We don’t need a ton of general volume.”Distance swim coaches and their athletes are probably misunderstanding the need for high volumes in running as simply “getting in shape” and erroneously applying these concepts to swimming. The impact effects of gravity are significant for all runners (trust me…) but pretty irrelevant for swimmers. Distance swimmers need to build ABSOLUTE VO2max and improve pulling efficiency. Their stroke rates need to be super consistent.
A VO2max set was described in the previous “Tips” post on this forum. What comes next for distance swimmers has not been described. It is conceivable that a 1500/3k/5k swimmer may alternate between VO2max and distance “technique performance” sets. The VO2max sets are to energy-delivery failure but the distance sets might be to technical failure. A distance set may be 15×100 at 1500m pace with :20 rest. This shouldn’t result in energy-delivery failure due to the rest periods. So we need to induce technical failure.
The key to the distance set is strokes per lap versus target time. If the swimmer uses 20 strokes (SCM) per lap and holds a 1:10 for 15x100m then the overload is working down to 19 strokes at a 1:10 target by training the 8 technical elements in microcycles (drag reduction, pulling power phase, turns, etc.). Failure in the 19-stroke session is when the swimmer takes 20 strokes, even if they make the target pace. The goal is to become extremely consistent. Completing 20-25x100m at a 1500m target pace is fine but if the athlete is increasing the stroke rate to maintain the pace then the overload moves back to energy-delivery. And since this is below 100% VO2max (this pace is 90-95% VO2max) it is an inefficient way to train.
The fallacy of distance training for swimming is that more volume should be completed for longer events. Runners need volume for structural development due to muscular damage from eccentric forces. The reason a swimmer can swim 15k in a session is because there are no eccentric forces damaging muscle. But, in order to swim 15k intensity must decrease. Swimming slower to simply complete more volume is pointless. 50 and 100 swimmers need VO2max training to improve the ability to train (the old aerobic base generalization) and faster work to build muscle and force (which depends on technical proficiency). Distance swimmers need VO2max training to improve energy delivery during races and distance technical training to improve stroke consistency, distance, and efficiency. All training literally centers on an athlete’s 100% VO2max.
Ryan
Nora,
Here is a good guide to begin with:
https://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/56USRPT50m.pdfThis site has a lot of info:
https://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/table.htmThis is the complete guide:
http://brentrushall.com/macro/index.htmAnd here are some paid courses:
http://usrptia.org/index.htmRyan Upper
Gold-Level USRPT Coach
Advanced USRPT Concept DeveloperAvoid the arm swings for a while. Here’s an explanation of how to strengthen swimming muscles while improving range-of-motion:
Some full range push ups will activate the muscle and should have a loosening effect as well.
For your knees and ankles, do some slow controlled squats (2-legs). This should stretch the quad and ankle muscles while activating them. If the lunges are exacerbating your knee instability then avoid single leg exercises.
This may be biceps “stringing”. The more stress you induce the more the muscles tighten during recovery periods. Since swimming involves no eccentric contractions the muscle will shorten during hard training periods and tighten which will lead to soreness.
describe your “dynamic stretching”. Be specific.
Start with slower work (50’s @ 200 pace) first then move into faster sets. Do sprint work every other day.
Ryan
Gold-level USRPT CoachLiv,
Probably not much of a difference in the 50. Take a breath out of the SCY turn and you should be good getting home. For LCM take 1 breath before halfway then 1 before the flags.
For LCM 100, 4 strokes per breath should be doable the whole race because the stroke rate is higher, thus less time per cycle. For SCY 100 you probably should breathe in and out of every turn if you are stretching the underwaters then maintain a 4 stroke per breath pattern.
The 200 is a little tricky due to the CO2 buildup. The last 25-50 will probably require a 2 stroke cycle.
For every stroke, the breathing rate is somewhat dependent on the stroke rate. Simone has a low stroke rate versus others so if she takes 2 strokes per breath at times it doesn’t exactly mean the same as someone with a higher stroke rate. Same goes for fly. Phelps breathed every stroke but had a huge distance per stroke.
Paul,
Yes, stop at 1 failure. But it’s a guideline. If the distance and pace are closer to an event like the 500 then treat it as a regular USRPT set. If it’s in addition to work for 200/100/50 swimmers then use it as a “conditioning” set.
You want to find a pace and interval that yields about 11-16 reps. If they die at 3 well something was wrong or the set was misprogrammed. I tell my guys to slow down on the first rep all the time cuz they take it out 3-4 seconds too fast.
“Given that this is about an approximate Vo2Max rather than pace, isn’t it always better to complete the set and get the work in?”
I’ve gone back and forth on this. On a 1:10 interval 12 reps is 14 minutes. I’m usually in the 12-16 range to failure with this set. If I do 7-8 one day I just move on to the actual race sets (I’m 100/50 free and fly). I’m not sure what the value of resting another 1:10 then trying to get your system back to 100% VO2max is. If you do 3 more reps to failure, you probably hit 100% somewhere in rep 2, then exceeded 100% on rep 3. So, half of the reps at the restart are just working back to the desired level. This adds another 4:40 to the set. I could’ve just rested during that time and moved to my pace sets…
However, if this set is for purely fitness reasons then yes, finding and maintaining a VO2max pace/interval that you can maintain for 15-20 minutes is going to be the MOST efficient use of your time. You might be surprised how adding 5 seconds to the rest period allows you to maintain a target pace much longer. 10 reps using 50:20 might turn into 16 using 50:25.
Another observation:
When you’re getting back in shape, 100% VO2max doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be breathing hard. If the delivery deficiency is in the local peripheral muscle then the pulling muscles will get that slight burning sensation and lose power. It usually takes 4-8 sessions to get into the “had to stop cuz I couldn’t catch my breath” failure.We shouldn’t look at patterns. It’s an expenditure:time ratio.
The reason you can take 1 breath in the 50 is that it’s short. When you get to the 100, you’re running into an issue with expelling CO2 that finally reached the lungs. It takes 20-25 seconds for blood from the working muscle to return to the lungs. It’s fine to breathe every 4 until you need to breathe every 2. In the 2nd 50 of the 100 there will be a lot of CO2 entering the bloodstream and returning to the lungs. You’re working at a rate above VO2max. In a USRPT set, this is expanded out because of the intervals.
The slower the event, the less CO2 enters the bloodstream every second. It’s easier to maintain a breathing patterning for the 500-1650.
I always breathe to the right. I can maintain a 4 breath pattern for a while. Breathing during the end of a tough USPRT set is a great excuse to work on your head rotation and reduce drag.
Also, if you hold your underwaters longer in the 2nd and 3rd turn then CO2 will accumulate until you surface for a breathe.
Ryan
Gold-Level USRPT Coach candidateLiv,
Ok. One big thing: You’re asking a lot of questions, which is good, but I don’t want you to try to make a whole bunch of adjustments all at once. Pick 1-2 concepts for the next month. Don’t think about the underwater kick as getting to the 15m mark; think about the kick as hitting the surface at a high speed, no matter where that occurs.
With that said, I’m going to break down the underwater race:
1. push off the wall about 18 inches below the surface.
2. streamline downward at 25-30 degrees for a full 1000-1 count (attack angle) before kicking. You may be 3-3.5 feet deep after this segment.
3. perform a DK to alter your attack angle to 30-40 degrees upward.
4. kick to the surface.DKs are performed by:
1. rapid downward, knee extension with feet at hip width, toes about 6-10 inches apart.
2. initiate kicks from the hips.
3. upper body should be as motionless as possible.
4. hands should lead the breakout and be used to adjust the “attack angle”. Point your fingers where you want to go.It seems like you really emphasize the underwater kick so work on this for a few weeks and get back to us. I usually do 8-10 25’s underwaters past half with a smooth breakout in my warmup. Moderate swim to the wall on a :40. Focus on kicking downward hard. Make sure your first pull doesn’t have any water on top of the arm when the arm begins recovery. If you feel water on the elbow then you are too low.
Ryan
Bronze-Level USRPT Coach
Gold-Level Coaching CandidateHi Liv!
Agree with Doc. Doc, I’m looking at her underwater kicks in the 100 FR and FL – I would rather see a change of maybe 2 kicks from first to last underwater. Change of 5 probably means she’s over-kicking the first lap and/or not maintaining her underwater speed the last 2 laps. What is your experience in this?
We almost always do N x 50’s first before we work down to sprint speeds. Respiratory fatigue is easier to recover from (breathing and heart muscle; 5-15 minutes) than peripheral fatigue (pulling muscle during sprints; 12-48 hours).
Your underwaters are only helping you IF you’re getting faster to the flags/half/15 marker. And if you’re getting faster with fewer kicks. Just like surface swimming. It’s a balance; if you feel like you’re breaching the surface and the first pull is hard then you’re coming up at a slower speed. Just a thought, hard to completely know from the write-up.
Also,
https://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/champion/BS-BF%20Turn.htm
MA demonstrating the short radius turn. He’s turning at about .8 secondsRyan
Bronze-Level USRPT CoachKevin,
I re-read the older thread and saw you had the same questions. I looked at what I wrote some 3! years ago and thought about what I’ve been doing recently.
Periodization: I’ve attempted to list some observations in the other forum topic about this. My recent one indirectly addresses an early season situation. Essentially, your more experienced swimmers suffer from peripheral anaerobic fatigue early in the season. There’s really no way around this. They probably aren’t breathing hard on many sets cuz the peripheral muscle can’t regenerate efficiently. As a traditional coach, if we don’t see them breathing hard we think they aren’t working hard.
The problem with experienced athletes is they know/remember how to go fast. Technique takes years to degrade. But the half-life of mitochondria in 14 days. So, your swimmers are feeling a fast 100 pace on the first 25 but by rep 6 the energy delivery architecture is exposed as being “out of shape”. I think training in the 100% VO2max range may be the best fix for this issue.
As for 2-week periodization, I think it just comes down to changing one of the variables. When the athlete plateaus tweak something. I’ve found pace (intensity) to be the most demanding. Increasing target volume and decreasing rest are less demanding. Changing a technique item helps to refresh the mental focus. I would be careful looking at MA’s plan cuz he is 1 athlete. We don’t know where he falls in a large population.
Peaking:
I’ve used a plan where I lock everything in 2 weeks before a meet; no specific techinque item focus, no change in pace or interval. But keep the volume up. The week before I cut volume so that I end up doing 6-8 reps 48-72 hours before. Add more starts and turns but longer breaks between sets. No sprints 2-3 days out. And I take the day off before the event. For individuals, ask them if they feel they locked in their race-pace in the short sets. If they feel they have then move them along. If they say they didn’t give them a few more reps. They should be thinking about this during the meet warmup as well.From MA’s Pan Pacs video it looks like he runs through his event sets in the same order and in the same day scheme as the meet. He said he starts this 1 month out. So for a 3 day meet you would train each event you would be swimming each day and rotate the training on a 3-day microcycle.
