billratio
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billratioParticipant
Also, more related to this thread, we switched her 50s @1:30 to 50s @2:00 today. Was able to do much better holding back half pace. Right now we’re trying to hold 28.5 and she was under that for 9 straight.
I think we can train for a 54.0 and try to split it 26.0/28.0. Is that how you would split that race or should it be 26.25/27.75? She split her 55.1 at 26.5/28.5.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantI always appreciate your rants. I am fighting against many of the same things. This sprinter is telling me every week “I feel like I’m not doing anything.” The second year is definitely easier than the first year in terms of getting them to buy into it.
We had a lot of good swims yesterday. 9th grade girl broke the 100 fly record with a 1:01.7 (was 1:02.4 at sections last year). The sprinter who is the topic of the thread went a lifetime best 55.1 in the 100 free (was 55.3 at sections last year) and also had a lifetime best 200 free. She doesn’t train for the 200 free (except for 50s on 1:00 on wednesdays) but we might swim it one more time because she is close to our pool record. For an 18 year old girl to be swimming lifetime bests at mid-season meets without resting or a tech suit is crazy to me.
Our 200 Free Relay broke our school record by a lot. Their time was also faster than the winning time at sections last year. Swimming a relay that fast mid-season without being rested, shaved, or in tech suits amazes me. I think people are starting to think we are tapering for meets and won’t be able to drop time at sections. Part of me gets a bit worried about that because I hear it so much but even if we don’t drop time we’ll have a good shot at having some of the fastest relays in the section.
(I should note that the 9th grade flyer improved a lot over the summer. Her long course time converts to under 1:01.)
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantThis is all very interesting. When we do 25s @1:00 for 100 free I never knew what pace to expect of them. I have just been saying it needs to be clearly faster than 100 pace.
So do you ever do 25s for 100 pace on 15-25 seconds rest and just hold 100 time divided by 4? The majority of our 100 work is made up of 25s but not as many of them are done @ 1:00.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantYes, this is the girl you gave me some input on last season. It was very helpful.
“Because the majority of them don’t really swim anything other than free they are on a cycle of four days where primary event is 50/100 free and 2 days primary is 200 free with any secondary work being “25s on 1:00” and “50s on 2:00” of a stroke other than free. (Need them for relays).”
Does this mean you train for the 50 and the 100 free on the same day 4 days a week?
So do you believe that the 50s @1:00 for 200 pace is beneficial for their 100 free?
Do I need to worry about lactic acid buildup from doing 50s on 1:30 or 2:00?
Do you do any stroke count monitoring with your swimmers? Right now this 50 swimmer is doing 13 strokes for a 25 from a start (sprint) and around 17 from a push. This seems to be in the same range as other good 50 freestylers.
I really appreciate your willingness to share what you do for training. We’ll be working in more shorter sprints this week.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantI should also add that the first week she wasn’t breaking 12.0 off the blocks. She came into the season in good shape but got down to 11.75 by the next week. She is able to do 11.75 much more consistently than she was early in the season so I wouldn’t say there has been no improvement.
Her biggest improvement came immediately with a technique change (or more of a focus point change) and she went from going 11.75 on one 25 to swimming 11.58, 11.65, 11.59, 11.46 on the next 4. I know I don’t time perfectly but she was clearly swimming much faster with the new focus. That was only last Wednesday and on Friday she was going 11.7 again then we tried to refocus on the same thing and were able to go a few in the 11.65 range. Not sure how much to trust my stopwatch on these things. Not sure if the technique focus didn’t stick entirely or I was just off with my timing on Wednesday.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantMain training for the 50 has been 25s @1:30 alternating from a start and from a push (Usually offer 12-16). One day we did a lot more(20+) and they seemed very tired the next day. Also doing a lot of 25s off the blocks at 2:00 (Usually around 10 when we do them). We don’t do both at the same workout. It has been Training for 100 free on M,W,F and training for 50 on T,Th,F. Every practice she ends with a couple (2-4) 25s off the blocks though.
We usually do 12.5s but so far this year have hardly done any. Haven’t done any 20s. I know it annoys her not knowing her time so I don’t think she’d be a fan of 20s but I’m willing to try.
She got her lifetime best last year with 24.8 (with tech suit) and has gone 25.0 this year (w/o tech suit). I’m extremely happy with where she is right now but am starting to think she could break 24 with good coaching.
Last year before resting her fastest time was 25.95 and she went 25.19 at sections and 24.94 and 24.84 at state.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantThanks for the tip.
What does your 100 free training consist of? Is it mostly 25s or do you do a lot of 50s as well?
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantAgreed. It’s just hard when I don’t see a lot of things to work on. When we make little adjustments we aren’t seeing any difference.
We did one technique adjustment last week that has her consistently swimming 11.6-11.7 now. But we are again in the same place now where all her training seems to just be maintenance.
There aren’t any sets that are more beneficial than other sets for sprinting? Is the least rest possible while still swimming her fastest possible times the best way to go? Should she sprint 50s in practice ever?
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantIs it bad to train 50s and 25s for the 100 free on the same day?
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantWhat are you using to keep track of your times?
I made a comeback 5 years after finishing college swimming. I think you’ll be surprised at how well you do if you keep at it.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantCongrats! Would you mind sharing their times and what their results were like in practice? What events did the all-state swimmers swim?
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantI think the advantage of adding the 25s is that it enables you to get a few more yards when you can’t make 50s anymore. Becca Mann mentioned that her and Michael Andrew did something like this when she was training with him. They did 50s until they couldn’t and then switched to 25s.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantI’ll do the best I can to help.
I don’t think it is enough to just cut the time in half when going from 50s at 200 pace to 25s at 200 pace. The turns add time and that is taking another turn out of the equation. You’d need to at least cut it down to 13.3 and then with a 1+ second turn that would be around your 200 pace. I also think the numbers need to be crazy high if you are going to be using them for a 200.
My girls have such an easy time holding 200 pace on 25s that we primarily use them after a 200 set with 50s. Just as a way to get more yards at pace done.
I think 13.3 second 25s would be beneficial for training for a 1:51 but those aren’t the sets that are going to be predictive. I also think just cutting the 200 time into 4 is not enough because the turns take time. Oldschool says the 50s should be at the pace of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th 50 of the 200. I’ve found that to be accurate in my limited 200 results.
I still think 27.75 will be okay because the first 50 will cut off some of the turn time. Just don’t expect to hold 27.75 the whole race. So if you can go out in 24.75 and then hold 28.75s you will be at your 1:51.0.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantSo it’s more likely to be at the high end of the standard deviation? I was assuming that most of the time it would fall closer to the middle.
She is well above 40% made. However, we never offer 25s on :30. It’s all :40, :50, or 1:00. I can’t give you an exact percent made right now. The results chart is at the pool. It’s in the 75% range when we’re going on the :40.
We have done zero 50 flys this year so I can’t give you any numbers for that… 🙂
For the sets I’ve calculated this week she has averaged 14.99 on the :40 with a standard deviation of .35. She was not very focused this set. It sometimes takes her a while. She went 14.61, 15.24, 15.40 then jumped down to 14.55. That’s the reason for the crazy standard deviation.
She averaged 14.81 on :50 with standard deviation of .17 and averaged 14.84 on 1:00 with standard deviation of .17. She was slower on 1:00 because it was the end of practice.
I’m happy with how she is swimming. Today she was a lot more focused and had even better results.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
billratioParticipantI think we’ve been training to split it better than she did at HS state. She was doing traditional training with her HS team. We’ve pretty much only been doing race pace 25s for her. Hopefully that is a good enough way to train for a more evenly split race. She has done some 25s of :50 and 1:00 to get going a little faster.
We did your test sets today.
4×25 on 1:00 and she went 13.62, 13.77, 13.74, 13.89 = mean of 13.76 with standard deviation of 0.11
4×50 on 2:00 and she went 30.52, 31.49, 31.86, 31.49 = mean of 31.34 with standard deviation of 0.57
According to this she could go between 58.07 and 59.65
We just had our goal set for breaking 1:01. I have a hard time believing she’ll go that fast but it would be extremely exciting. I don’t think I time fast because our results match practice times pretty well for most swimmers.
Obviously this is the only time we’ve done the set. Is it worth doing again in two days? We have State in one and a half weeks.
"Most people have the will to win. Few have the will to prepare to win."
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