oldschoolc
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60% is in each stroke. There is VERY little cross over. It’s apples to oranges or the principle of specificty. Riding a bike doesn’t make you better at swimming.
We will move from 100 to 200 work with either an increase in volume or we may need to repeat the same number due to progressions i.e. not ever good results and could be just a bad day for them. We are always looking for an increase in race speed i.e. 20×50 @ 200p made 12, then the next time looking for maybe 11-14, you can have huge swings with the numbers. Espicially early season when the are adjusting to faster speeds than the prior season. It can drive you crazy and you have to constantly remind ourself “it will all work out” and it usually does.
If I read your sequence correctly. you have 1 500 set, 3 200 stroke sets, 2 100 free sets, 2 100 stroke sets. I included your “focus sets” in the total.
If you follow the good Dr’s. recommendations you need to have at least 3 stimuli per week to create adapation. What I did at first was “KISS” and not try and do too much. It’s hard because you want to try and do everything for everone and all you do is end up getting fragmented and have a difficult time knowing what worked and didn’t work. We started training for 100/200 free and 100/200 of the stroke and then got a little more creative as I GOT BETTER AT THE SEQUENCE.
Starting out having one set for each distance is a good way to go. It gives you a base to work off of and from there you can start to experiment with different sets. But you work off something you know works and that way you can always fall back and not miss a beat and the kids never know.
Example: 200s free, we may start with 75s, (the kids will not like this. But will say you do have to “feel the sting”),move to 50s and then to 25s at “50s” pace divided in 1/2, and do 30 or more (we may use a tempo trainer for this type of set). with the goal of striving for “mastery” (60%). The brain has to be in the “moment” and often to make the adjustment to speed, tempo, distance per stroke and underwater work.“How important do you think is it to have them train 50s at 100RP or 75s at 200RP?” They will sometime need to “feel the sting” and that will be dependent on you and when you think they are ready. it may only be 2-4 to start or so at the end of a set of 50s and you say “hey let’s try 75s and you explain how to firgure pace and go for it! Then you may ask for feedback and if they are honest they’ll tell you “it feels like the 200 and hurts like hell” but there is value in doing this set. Next question from them is usually “how many will we have to do?” Just laugh. They’ll think you’re crazy.
I have one observation. In a number of forums coaches have stated that they are some how worried about boredom with USRPT. I’ve been doing this for over 3 years now and not one kid has quit from boredom. If they will pay attention they know at pretty much any time how fast they can go and what are resonable expections at a meet. We have a saying ” If you want to be entertained then stay at home and watch TV. This is about performance.
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
60% is total at really any point in the season. If they are achieving 60% of total offered they are the most consistent meaning they will race well during the mid and championship seasons. They have shown good “mastery” and have “accumulated enough potential” to “utilize” it. Record and watch is really the best way to get a handle on it. That doesn’t mean that if they make less than 60% they will not swim well. They just aren’t as consistent as those that have 60% or better. (Dr. Rushall’s brain training):)
Most of the kids train for 100/200 frees and 100/200s of stroke and 200IM.
Here is a brief sequence of a week. This is week 1 of the cycle and is repeated again in week 3.
Monday free 200/100 and short to long
Tuesday Stroke 100/200 (IM) and short to long
Wednesday Stroke 100/200 (IM) and short to long
Thursday Free 100/200 and short to long
Friday Stroke 100/200 and short to long
Saturday free 200/100 (IM) short to long
The reason IM is where it is we have 8 lanes on those days and makes life a lot easier.
Explaination:
free or stroke means primary emphasis for sets. 100/200, if it is a free primary then is moving from 100 free sets i.e. 25s and 50s to the third set is 200fr work i.e. 50s or 75s. Short to long is a reference to distance i.e. moving from 25s first set to maybe 75s as last set.The 2nd and 4th weeks we move around the primary emphasis with the major change being we go long to short. The reason here is that as you go later in the workout fatigue does accumulate I don’t care what Dr. Rushall says. So by changing the distance order and putting say 75s early this gives them a chance to improve numbers done while not under fatigue from earlier sets.
After watching and recording the numbers I’ve found it to be the better sequence of work for MY kids. Would really need more coaches recording to see if this is the BEST for swimmers.
I wish I could figure out attachments. It would save me a lot of time typing.
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
Coach Tucker,
We use 2 in a row or 3 total for set. Yes, they will move to a recovery set once out.The system is pretty messy (in a good way) and is some times hard to maintain structure. It’s a little like trying to herd cats.
100% would be great! We will repeat the same exact workout 3 times in a week so if they were to achieve 100% on all 3 workouts their speed would get adjusted for next week. Our goal is 75% made of total offered for each set. But it realistically turns out to be in the 60% range (they have the most consistent race performances all season) that’s where the 60% reference comes from. That’s why you have to record numbers offered and made. I know you have a lot of swimmers, but pick 5-6 and track them for a while and see what happens. When they race compare race splits to training paces and see if they line up (training vs. race and race vs training). You don’t need to say anything to them just record and observe, let the numbers “talk” to you. I think you will find it interesting.
Just an observation . Once the swimmers grasp the concept you will see a funny change. They get out after swimming a LTB mid-season and they’re all happy and then they realize that their training paces just got faster. You hear “oh crap my 50s have to be faster”
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
Club coach, same club 35 years. They train to swim the 50, 100, 200 an occasional 500 free, 100 and 200 of stroke along with 200IM. Don’t have many interested in distance not sure why as they do well when they swim it. Although they don’t like the USRP format for distance, hurts like hell.:)
The 60% reference or what we call “showing mastery”. It’s of total offered for current point in the season. Look at it like putting money in the bank, you’re “accumulating potential” of your principle so you can earn interest that you can go spend or “utilization of potential”. Just like putting money in savings it takes awhile before it really starts earning enough interest for you to use. So, more mid-season volumes will you be able to use for predicting perfomances. We ask the kids early season to be within 3% of LTB when racing and wait until numbers made come up before we start predictions. So one set, one time is not “mastery” or even over a week. Probably hasn’t accumulated enough potetinal to utilize just yet.
Hope this helps.
Side note, anyone else having problems attaching files? I’ve tried pdf and jpeg all well under the 512kb size and nothing seems to work???
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
not sure why the file is not attached as it’s only 45kb
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
sorry for the mess. The forum needs a better email add-in to send data.
If you give me an email address I will send to you a much better file.Again sorry.
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
Coach Tucker,
You are correct in that the “self-regulating” or “auto-regulation” is CRITICAL! If you don’t let them stop when they can no longer hold pace and have them swim out the set you might as well go back to the traditional approach.Here is data over the past 24 years. It dropped the 200 fly and 200IM data ?? In 1990-2000, we were a very traditional program i.e. 11 workouts, kicked, pulled, you name it we did it.
You can see that after 2000, we have had a much better % improvement rate that was due to a gamble we took and dropped AMs, dropped weights, dryland and stretching. The only goal was to swim fast at each practice.
The numbers are percent improvements for just the short course seasons. I have LCM data but thought it a bit much to look at.
1990-2000 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl
Avg % Imp 1.671 2.570 2.802 3.456 3.802 2.841 2.959 4.648 4.604
2000-2010 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl
Avg % Imp 2.901 3.800 4.032 4.686 5.032 4.071 4.189 5.878 5.834
2010-2011 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl 2.834 3.519 4.447 4.999 5.045 4.092 4.309 5.894 5.3172011-2012 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl 2.949 3.898 3.913 4.724 5.016 4.331 4.249 5.655 5.491
2012-2013 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl 3.179 4.656 2.846 4.173 4.956 4.808 4.129 5.179 5.840
2013-2014 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl 2.719 3.140 4.980 5.275 5.075 3.853 4.369 6.132 5.123
2010-2014 50fr 100fr 200fr 500fr 100ba 200ba 100br 200br 100fl
2.920 3.803 4.046 4.793 5.023 4.271 4.264 5.715 5.448
just tinkering"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
Coach Tucker,
Offering 14.9k is not the hard part, it’s doing 14.9k that’s difficult. At 6 workouts a week that’s only 2.4k per workout, again that’s offered, not made. As a Club Team we also train for the 200s of the stroke, so we do 75s in the USRPT protocol which can bump up RP offered volume.We train Monday thru Friday 1.5-2hrs depending on what we need to get done and Saturday mornings 1.5-2hrs. We run 3 USRPT per workout and on some days 4 depending on the group. 1 coach and 22 swimmers, 3 workouts we’re in 6 lanes and 3 we have 8 🙂
Billratio,
Your numbers done are going to be all over the place. They will have great days and make over 75% of offered and then they have days that they do 2 of 20. But that is how the system is set up “auto-regulating” I attached one of your recording sheets so you can see they get all over (mainly attendance issues have the greatest impact). We have these for every stroke and distance.It looks like right now that if they can achieve just over 60% offered that speed becomes “race reliable” meaning you can use it to perdict performances, below that and it becomes “iffy” at best.I enjoy the conversations
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
Was the 7500 offered or what they did?
Last week we had 14,900k at race pace offered and the average was 62.67 or 9,300k (rounding) the swimmers did. We track total offered, total made, % made and volume offered and made.
There is really no ideal number. This is all SWAG work by Rushall unless you consider an “n of 1” valid (MA). It will be the coaches in the field that put this together and come up with a better understanding. But we have to track everthing right now or we’re no better than the “traditional” way and we may find that USRPT isn’t really any better. Won’t know until we track the data.
If it’s time, it’s recordable and if it’s recordable, it’s controlable. Control it!
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
now we’re getting some where! If we don’t use numbers how do we know if USRPT is actually better than the “traditional” system?
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
I don’t know what “we swam well” or “results were solid” means. Percent improvement is easy to figure.
Over an 8 week span of prelim/final meets we used 25% reduction on Wed and another 25% reduction on Thursday, so 50% over 2 days no reduction in number of sets. We had LTB of 77.35%, 63.88%, 65.73% and 66.72%, which when taken into account this is the same group of swimmers is not bad.After each week we went right back to work at previous numbers.
I don’t get Dr. Rushall, in one bulletin he talks about slight reductions a couple of days before the meet due to the fact that the system is “auto-regulating” and then comes out with another bulletin saying try 2 weeks.
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
This combines both numbers made and target times for “n x 50 fr on :50/1:00”. Easy to do, after each set walk down the lanes and record numbers on work data sheet and then transfer over to EXCEL. Three USRP sets in a workout will take about 10 minutes to enter with a group of 24 swimmers.
We have sheets for free and stroke 25s, 50s, 75s and 100s.
This also allows you to copy into workout (WORD) so that they are ready have pace times and can see numbers made from last time they did workout.
"Only in America. Dream in red, white and blue"
