[ryanupper]

Hi,

The fact that you bought the technique manual means you’re on the right path. Most of the shorter papers are ideas and concepts from the manual so don’t worry too much about diving into the rest of them for now. Probably the next thing you can do is start watching the “how champions do it” videos. Rushall breaks down each part of each stroke for various swimmers.

1. I do 2-3 sets per session, 3 times a week. It’s really whatever you have time for. Focus on your core stroke and distance then add things as you get in shape. I used to do sprints first and then longer stuff but for the last year I’ve changed it to sprinting last. 50’s @200 pace then 25’s @100 then 20’s @50 is a typical session progression.

2. Correct. Add a second for turns. You can always lower the target time next session if you do great.

3. I prefer to swim 100 and 50 free. When i get back into season I always need to swim 50’s at 200 pace for 2 reasons: Longer work sessions (better VO2max adaptation) and more stroke reps focusing on a part of the technique. Try adding more rest for a few sessions, 30 seconds of rest is still tiring when you are getting back in shape. Hold your target for a couple weeks and lower the rest to 25 then 20 then 15. I didn’t do any sprints the first 2 weeks this year because I wanted to get a lot of technical work in before I started sprinting. Now I swim 50’s every other session and swim 25’s (either 100 free or fly pace) every session.

4. Looks fine. For breaststroke and fly maybe try this method: http://forum.usrpt.com/forums/topic/shorter-rep-distances-to-increase-volume-early-in-season/

5. Add stuff when you feel like adding. Fly will help with the initiation and power phase of the breaststroke pull. Maybe do some free sets on days your legs get tired from breaststroke kick. The other strokes are very arm-heavy but Breast is balanced arms and legs.

6. Higher volume of reps or lowering rest. If you’re doing 25’s on a :30 you can lower the interval to a :25 for a few sessions then lower your target and go back to a :35 interval and work back down.

7. No need to be strict. Sometimes you need to get more technical volume in and just need some more rest. Sometimes, if I have a nice hard first set I’ll do my second set with 5-10 seconds more rest. Because I know the first set was pretty stressful and I want to get quality volume in. If you are getting ready for a competition then focus on strict rest intervals and lowering them to stress your respiratory system.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

Another conceptual observation: Depending on the volume you’re expecting for the first miss (failure) an adjustment can be made for the number of strokes per rep.

Yesterday I was using 7 strokes to the wall and completed 10 reps before getting sloppy. I took a minute rest but was only able to complete 2 x 2 reps for the next two failures. Normally I’m expecting 3-5. I chalk this up to some residual fatigue from the 100 free set before. Normally, I’ll do a 200 free pace set before I do fly – doing back-to-back 100 pace sets is tough.

Hindsight, I could trim the stroke count to 6 strokes per rep after the first miss. This would take me back to ~22 yards. If I wanted to get some significant volume in I could even trim to 5 strokes. Again, working on power phase to drive the stroke distance so I understand that the fatigue will be higher than other micros. Also focusing on arm exit as I become fatigued since that seems to get really sloppy in the end. My hands are exiting asymmetrically; the left tends to drift under the hip before coming back out.

7 strokes x 10 = 70 quality stroke “reps” to failure. 2 x 2 x 7= 28 to finish.
Or, 7×10 = 70 then trim to 5. Feasible to get 10 more laps in at that point. 5 x 10 = 50. Maybe again for a 3rd miss 5 x 6 = 30.

As long as the stroke “reps” are the same intensity (pace/DPS/rate) with race-specific coordination then 7 or 5 is irrelevant after the first failure. This will be an optional tool to use when I feel like the initial set specifications are too hard after the first failure and I need to get more volume in.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

Got to 7 strokes last week. The first few reps I’m hitting the wall right after the arm recovery. By 10 I was gliding a couple feet to the wall. On a :40. Hit 13s for a few then 14s with a short glide to the wall. When I feel like I’m coming in a bit short I focus on driving the initial actions and power phase a little harder.

The nice thing about a number limitation is I’m not forcing myself to take 1 more stroke to hit the wall. This would cause everything to get sloppy much faster. And I might artificially shorten my other cycles in the lap knowing I need to get the 8th stroke in – or to time the wall touch better. Now I just focus on making the 7 strokes as powerful and long as possible because I know they are enough to complete the lap outside of heavy fatigue.

Looking at it from a complete 100 race perspective I’m planning on holding 7 strokes on laps 2 and 3 then purposefully and immediately increasing the rate to 8 strokes on the last lap knowing I will be a few feet short with 7 strokes under fatigue.

[ryanupper]

Doc,

Well I have digital clocks on the wall at each corner of the pool so I’m getting my splits to a 0.5. If I switch pools I’ll look into that. My buddy just got a gen 3 apple watch with a tempo app and it’s starting to learn so we’ll see how accurate it gets overall. I should probably look into something to measure turns pretty soon. I feel like they are slowish.

We have cones. I saw one in the pool the other day. I’m actually “lucky” that the SCY pool is 4 feet deep on the ends. If I come up head past the flags I’m 21y if I glide just short of the “T” I’m 22y. I’ll move them around for the turns when I get there.

Thanks, I’ll keep this updated as I progress.
Ryan

[ryanupper]

Do yourself a favor and buy the manual for $25. http://brentrushall.com/macro/index.htm

I did USRPT for a year while only understanding the conditioning part (by reading his short papers) then got the book and wished I had just done that on day 1. The technical stuff is more important than conditioning for long-term development.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

Working well. Trying to maintain a stroke count, distance, and 100 pace all at the same time is tough but it seems to be the best way to measure fly and breaststroke improvements. After I get to 7 strokes I think I will add a turn and 1 stroke breakout with easy freestyle to finish the 50. Start on a 1:00 and work down to a :50. At that point, alternating between workouts of N x 25’s @100 pace and N x 25+turn w/ breakout @100 pace will allow for turn work without requiring a full fly 50.

Maybe I can find a marker to see the breakout distance and time but that won’t be a priority of that session.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

Monday. 5 stroke fly (20 yards with a short streamline glide) on a 35-second interval. Took a break at 14 because those 5 strokes were carrying me about 1-2 yards short of the 20-yard mark. Not necessarily “failure” but a noticeable decrease in power.

I’ll do another set of 5 strokes on a 35 then try 6 strokes on a 35. 6 will take me past the 20-yard flags but not to the wall.

I’m going to use this concept all the way to the wall. I’m estimating 7 efficient strokes to the wall. I’ll shoot for a time (~14.5 seconds) but also use the stroke distance as a failure point. If I start coming up 1-2 yards short of the wall that will be a miss as well.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

Above was Thursday. On Friday I used 5 fly strokes and easily got 20 reps in @40 interval. Wasn’t really tracking the time but was gliding into the 20 yard flags at about 11 seconds. Today or tomorrow I’ll do 5 stroke on a 35 interval. Next target set will be 6 strokes on a 35 and so on.

HUGE observation: I’m working on 6.9 “initial actions” during the session. I quickly noticed (about rep 4) that I wasn’t focused on 6.9, I was counting strokes…

Now I’ve been doing this USRPT technical thing for 3.5 years now. I’ve read through the macrocycle manual at least 7-8 times. If I can’t focus on counting strokes and the technical element at the same time your average swimmer will definitely not be able to focus on both.

Moral of the story, assigning a “counting” set will only result in swimmers counting. If anything, the coach should be taking baseline measurements from the deck at certain intervals in the season. For example, early season N x 100 free at 500 pace, count the strokes per 25/50 at like rep 4 and rep 12+ (near failure). Go through a whole macrocycle then count again and measure efficiency. If the swimmer is going faster with the same strokes that’s pretty good but if they are going faster with fewer strokes even better. Also, if they are holding a similar stroke count longer in the set that’s a big win as well.

Again, my one-off case study, but don’t expect much if you’re counting and trying to work on a technical element at the same time.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

You’re correctly applying the principles of specificity and individuality as well as the law “I only have so much time”. As coaches, we want a complete set of tools to train various levels of competence and fix individual discrepancies. Your 42″ vert probably doesn’t need to spend more time on his triple extension; sounds like your staff identified that which is exactly what we should be doing as coaches.

Everything I’ve written on these forums I might apply to an individual in pieces *if they need work on that specific piece* and if it’s a higher priority item. I only work with adults now, 18-24yo, so the focus is equally spent on power and technique. They also have time on their own to do things in the gym/pool. Sounds like you deal with children and adolescents so your prioritizations will be different.

ROM becomes an issue after puberty when muscle builds faster. If I started bodybuilding at 14, by 18 I would probably have horrible ROM for throwing a baseball, running, swimming, eggbeater, etc. Everything except deep squats and bench presses. However, if I’ve been swimming since 10-12yo, with good technical ROM, then it won’t be an issue as I build *swimming* muscle into adulthood. It will probably stay with me for years… assuming I don’t get into bodybuilding.

I guess there are 2 things I’ve been consistent about in these forums:
1) Rushall is correct that weight training is irrelevant for improving swimming performance. However, in this area, he’s generalizing by grouping every exercise into the term “weight training”. I’m being specific. The hip hinge is a very underdeveloped movement in swimmers (and water polo players). Notice I’ve never said to do pushups, pull ups, deadlifts, lunges, and TWISTING MOTIONS!, etc like every other site (looking at you USMS and NSCA) because those *are* irrelevant. Laughs: https://www.nsca.com/uploadedFiles/NSCA/Resources/PDF/Education/Articles/Assoc_Publications_PDFs/land-based_strength_and_conditioning_%20for_swimming.pdf

2) You need overload to continue improvements and this can be broken down into multiple single biomechanical motions that combine into a complete skill [isolated biomechanical power specificity and complex biomechanical power specificity]. Costill says that to overload your complete swimming motion swim faster; this works for the complex biomechanical power skill of swimming because water increases resistance exponentially. However, 15-20 good starts will initially overload an athlete’s triple extension on land but after 40-60 starts every week for 8-12 weeks it has adapted (assuming the athlete isn’t gaining weight). The movement speed becomes comfortable so an overload must be applied somewhere to continue muscular development. I would *not* apply weight to a swimmer on the block. I would break the complex skill into isolated motions (in this case the hip hinge and countermovement squat) and apply some weight (5-10% bodyweight creates a minor overload that has been shown to limit the impact on technical proficiency of a complex skill). The block start is a 1 rep-max (in terms of maximum bodyweight power) exercise. After benching 135lbs 40-60 times a session for 8 weeks I’ll be really comfortable at 135lbs but my 1RM progression will have stopped. I need to add weight to keep progressing.

If John has an awesome start then looks like a parachute when he’s in the water he needs to work on his streamline. If Anna has been doing starts for 10 weeks but still looks like she just falls forward maybe developing power in isolation should be programmed for her.

Good discussion

[ryanupper]

Hmm, I’m not reading it that way. In the change column, TP has rate go up and DPS go down almost equally for no change in time. In RP both decrease which would mean a decrease in velocity and a slower time. Must be a typo or they didn’t explain it correctly.

The MDC test is weird. It says it’s a drag test but they loaded weight which wouldn’t have anything to do with the typical drag components. I threw that one out.

Reduction in drag is the best way to go faster but that shows up in the DPS, which decreased in both groups. I’m just picking on the study. It was translated into English so I’m guessing there are some translation issues.

As for the relationship between DPS and SR this is my favorite study: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5636248_The_influence_of_stroke_mechanics_into_energy_cost_of_elite_swimmers

[ryanupper]

Interesting. very interesting. This research:

http://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1869&context=sspapers

Unfortunately, the researchers didn’t address the fact that the reverse group did ~3x more high-intensity training and half the low-intensity volume. The only way this would show RP was better is if the HIT volumes were the same. In this case, I’m not sold that RP drove the improvement.

Also, consistent with most studies I’ve seen, stroke distance decreases throughout the training period for both groups. I typically view this as a lack of technical focus by the coaching staff. Ideally, you want the decrease in time to come from a maintenance of the stroke rate and an increase in distance.

But, it’s great to see that swim power increased 20% (versus 5%) when more HIT was programmed.

@doc

Is table 2 inconsistent? for TP stroke rate went up, stroke distance down and time stayed the same (checks out). But for RP stroke rate and distance went down and time went down 4 seconds. This doesn’t make sense.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

We need to be careful when using those examples. Anthropometry, range of motion, motor unit recruitment, etc. Birds are born to fly, fish born to swim, humans born to walk upright on land.

More swimming isn’t necessarily the correct answer. I need to change specific things about my body, which is designed to walk upright on land, to swim efficiently in water. Anthropometry: I can’t change my height or arm span but I can change my weight; currently I need to lose some weight. Range of motion: my arm can abduct upward while internally rotated 90 degrees to a certain point before I feel a stretch in the lats, pecs, coracobrachialis, etc; I want to increase that range of motion to attain the Phelps/Ledecky pull distance. This ROM has nothing to do with walking upright on land (or hunting a sabertooth tiger) only swimming. Motor unit recruitment: nothing else in my everyday life requires me to forcefully adduct the arm while internally rotated 90 degrees; this is purely for efficiently swimming through water.

Don’t forget that 2 motions used in a swimming race are land-based: pushing off the wall and the block start. It is near impossible to overload the leg/hip extension during the push off the wall because of the glide and the “walk” back to the wall; recovery time is long and you can’t change the density of water. This can be overloaded better on land using countermovement jumps and hip hinge swings. Squats and deadlifts are irrelevant because they don’t replicate the power requirement or range of motion we would need. I also need to increase my range of motion in my overhead arm extension prior to and during internal rotation of the arm. This can’t really be accomplished by swimming because I will routinely reach my current comfortable ROM then begin the stroke. There are a few things I can do on land to apply a stretching pressure beyond that in the pool: dynamic and static stretching generally applies to tendons while eccentric resistance exercise specific to the movement will increase the length of the muscle fiber by adding sarcomeres to myofibril segments (think intercostals, serratus anterior, lats, pecs, tricep long head, coracobrachialis).

So, you’re correct. Dissimilar training is useless for high-level athletes.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

Both Doc and Gary are right on. If you are swimming a 200 with 20sec rest then moving to a 150 with 20sec doesn’t change the pace, only your rest ratio. I’ll do 50s @200 time until failure then do 25s @200 time when I feel like I want to get more work in but need a better rest ratio.

Triathlon race pace versus 1650 for best time is important. The missing component of this conversation is that you should be working on becoming more efficient during those triathlon race pace sets. Break open the manual and really hammer the technique items to increase your distance per stroke while maintaining the Tri race pace. This is a great time to mentally focus on 1-2 technique items since you won’t really be hitting a failure point. Like Gary said, shoot for 1.5x distance and as you near the event decrease the rest to 15sec then 10sec; still locking in the pace but replicating race day conditions a little more. If you aren’t increasing your distance per stroke you’re just trying to be “in shape” for the event.

Side note concept: I run a 2 mile for time once a year. I’ll train by running 400-800 meter reps at my 2 mile pace. I’ve noticed that in the longer rep distances setting your rest at 25 or 30 seconds isn’t really that bad because the reps are ~2-4 minutes long. Your breathing will ramp back up 20-25 seconds into each rep. If I notice my breathing slows way down during the rest I’ll drop 5 seconds the next session. If your pace swim 200s are in the 2-3 minute range, 25-30 seconds of rest isn’t necessarily bad. Just decrease the rest over a few sessions if you’re consistently making your 1.5x volume.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

@amsepamse

Correct. Glycogen will probably be used during sprints, especially if you get into the 20-25 yard distance. But, it shouldn’t be depleted to the extent hard volume swimming or weight lifting depletes storage. It’s good to understand that once you start using local muscular glycogen (probably after 4-6 seconds of sprint surface swimming) it’s not regenerating much until the workout is over.

The glycogen sparing mechanism in USRPT is the time standard. Maintain the target pace time and, when you fall out of a small error window, stop and take a break. Holding 35s then falling back to 39-40s and continuing to swim to “make the set” is where the glycogen depletion happens. For the sprints, the standard is no slower than .3 seconds of daily best time. Trying to “sprint” during local muscular fatigue burns up the local glycogen storage. Glycogen stored in one muscle can’t transfer to another; only liver glycogen can re-enter the bloodstream.

Ryan

[ryanupper]

I’m not a nutritionist but I conduct research.

If you are trying to lose fat weight it’s generally better to drink water so that additional glucose in the bloodstream comes from existing storage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_phosphorylation

If not, drinking glucose (gatorade, etc.) during a workout has been shown to increase the longevity of the workout. Endurance cyclists went hard for 3 hours then the control went about 10 minutes longer after a break and the glucose supplemented group went about 26 minutes longer. http://jap.physiology.org/content/61/1/165.short

Depending on your intensity (closer to 100% affects glycogen usage) it is very beneficial to drink glucose after a workout to resynthesize glycogen. Immediately after results in a 4x regeneration rate versus water. This may be important if you are doing other things during the day (gym, run, etc.) but not a big deal if you workout once a day. Just eat at your normal meal time. Glycogen takes 24-48 hours to fully recover. http://jap.physiology.org/content/42/2/129.short

Ryan

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