MSchuber
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MSchuberParticipant
The key is race pace. You do that…you are training specifically.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantEnjoyed reading all the posts!
A couple things:
Anthony Ervin–6’3″ 170lbs
Vlad Morozov–5’11” 160lbs
Nikita Lobintsev–6’4″ 180lbs
Danila Izotov–6’4″ 180lbs
Tom Jager–6’3″ 180lbs
Matt Biondi–6’7″ 209lbs (20 less than Grevers)
Popov–6’6″ 192lbsThose are from a quick google search. I think the heavier they are the better their kick must be–and Russians (who rely on more science and less of a talent pool) tend to stay light.
TT vs USRPT–
All great coaches/programs work on technique, and they do speed work at some point to practice or rehearse this speed. Some catch on, some don’t. USRPT perhaps provides the other 2/3 of swimmers the added exposure they need to train the technique. At the same time, Dr. Rushall has recommended athletes train above and below their desired race distances. After reading some excerpts from Swim Coach Bible Vol II where Bob Bowman shares some of his speed work for butterfly…I start to see some of the parallels. Basically, he likes to fatigue them x amount aerobically and then asks for an anaerobic technically sound burst and repeats it several times. Keep in mind Michael Phelps (and Lochte) have lead on that they have horrible diets in order to fuel the training. Maybe their coaches–like so many–are also trying to fight the effects of poor nutrition by adding cardio.
USRPT & Weights–
I see it all the time. The college kid goes home, doesn’t want to swim garbage yardage with younger, more ambitious age-groupers, so he just lifts all summer on a carb-rich swimmer diet and gets fat-strong. When he returns to school, you ask him what position he is going out for on the football team. You suggest he stretch some, which he forgot to include in his plan.
I’d do my homework before installing a 1-ton motor onto my cigarette boat. I’d also be very cautious of how I distributed any extra weight on my boat.
Possible advantages to weights–
Neuro-muscular awareness–applicable to technique awareness/modification
Vertical leap–applicable to starts and turns
Healthy joints–stability can help prevent overuse injuries.Possible costs–
No valid data indicating where the athlete is in his season
Use your best guess as to what paces should be in relation to season goal times
Individual differences/needs may not be accounted for–some will benefit some may suffer
Headaches of blending USRPT/WEIGHT philosophiesI'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantUniversity of North Texas in Denton (DI) and we are doing it here in our sprint group at Trinity Univ. in San Antonio (DIII). UT Permian Basin (DII) may be doing some this coming season.
A lot of programs will not advertise their training methods to avoid stigma during recruiting.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantBe sure to train *Above* (400-500 training for 200, 200 training for 100, 100 training for 50) and *below* (50 training for 100, 100 training for 200) your desired race distance.
Toys are good for teaching technique, but then the technique needs to be trained in race conditions.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantI do not know the scientific answer to your question, however I would think three weeks out of training is three weeks out of training regardless of training methods.
However, the reality is there is nothing you can do to change the three weeks, all you can do is prepare for the upcoming meets. So stop looking back. If he doesn’t do his best at the meets you have a pretty good reason to justify the results in order to conjure motivation for next season.
I would approach it like this…
You’ve worked really hard. Of course it’s not ideal that you have been out of the water, this just means we have to be more focused on technique. I would spend a bit more time getting technique back (or improving it) and then don’t ever mention the three weeks again. Move on and see what happens! Thirteen year-olds are pretty resilient.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipant–On the point behind resting 20 seconds, resting 1 repetition, or resting 2 repetitions–
It is my understanding that your most important priority is race-pace swimming.
So if you get nothing else, you must get your athletes swimming at race-pace.
Once they are swimming at race-pace, THEN you want to tinker with the rest interval. If they are kicking each other, or hitting each other’s wakes real bad, then they will not swim at race-pace, and you are veering away from the specificity principle and losing the neuro-physiological advantage of RPT.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantIf I was in your shoes, I would have them swim them all (I guess–I don’t know your kids), but I would pick (with their help) 1 event per day to do really well in. I would then make sure we train the most for those 3 events–like if it’s the 100 freestyle, we would be doing a lot of 50 freestyle, 100 freestyle, and 200 freestyle work to get ready.
At those ages, if they can maintain their technique for a distance race, they are going to do well.
*Note* Your biggest obstacles are not their conditioning. You need to prepare their race strategies and their techniques. That’s one of the huge points of USRPT. You are teaching them the whole practice. “You failed because you lifted your head up.” “Your stroke rate dropped off.” “You stopped kicking.” ETC
Also, 30x100s might be a bit much. I would scale it back to 20 and get another set in.
Hope this helps!
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantThis is what I would do. I don’t know what your pool looks like so perform at your own risk.
Short Course swimming is all-about skills. If you miss your start, you are done. If you miss your turn, you lose. If you short stroke your finish, that might be enough to miss the time/place you want.
Mark up your pool, so that you can legitimately practice and time a proper turn without lifting your head and looking at the wall. Put cones or something that won’t move on the bottom to consistently signify when it is time to execute your turn. It is horrible crashing into a wall–either head-first or heals on top.
Then start your workout with 4x[4×12.5s] on 20sec. Within a month or two you should be doing 4x[6×12.5s]. One session, do them all freestyle. The next session, do them all butterfly. Get ample rest in between each round.
Then, since you have marked the bottom of the pool and learned how to do a turn without lifting your head, do 20-30 25s on 30-40s at your 100 freestyle/100 butterfly race pace. If you miss your pace, skip out one. If you miss on the 25 after you skipped out, you are done.
If you do not have a reliable clock, you could purchase a “GymBoss” and put it in a plastic bag. In the meantime, you will need to perform these by feel, which is kind of the point anyway.
These are the basics, unfortunately, your technique is the most important part of this training. To counteract not having a knowledgeable coach deck-side, I would set up my i-pad to a pool-side television and download a “video delay” app. This way, you can see what you look like after every repeat.
Hope this helps.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantI would do the majority of the 100 work in 25s.
It seems to me that the key measurement is not the distance of the repetition but the time it takes to complete the repetition. With 100 freestyle intensity, the athlete will build up more lactic acid if the repetition time is longer. It is preferable to get the lactic acid in consistent small doses over time rather than large doses at once.
It would be conceivable to me to use shorter than 25m distances for younger slower swimmers, and longer than 25m distances for older faster swimmers.
For example, perhaps a world-class 100m freestyler could build up to doing 33m repeats, and a 10yr old could build up to doing 15m butterfly repeats.
- This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Denaj.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantDr. Rushall told me to train above and train below every race. So, to train for the 100 freestyle, you need to make sure you are doing 50 free and 200 free USRPT sets. He cited Matt Biondi only training the 100 freestyle and doing worse than when he trained for 6-8 events.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantI really struggled with target times, but I think I have found a solution for next season.
We are going to do an early intra-squad, perhaps even a weekly race trial for the first month of official training to establish base-line target paces.
As they conquer the sets and/or as they put up faster times in dual-meets, we will adjust target paces from there.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantI had an IMer this year drop from a 1:58 to a 1:52.99. The bulk of his training was 25s and 50s.
He did 25s of all strokes and 50s of all strokes.
Two bread and butter sets were:
40x25s on :30. Rest when you feel your technique drop off. 10 of each stroke.
12x50s on 1:00. Hold your stroke. 3 of each stroke.
We neglected time in this instance, and focused more on holding technique. He had very significant gains. We may focus more on time next year, and I really like the idea of working more transition turns!
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantSwimin,
The problems you are facing with move-ups is difficult for all coaches and all clubs regardless of whether they are utilizing USRPT or not.
Also, while I have coached 3 years in age group swimming and 2 years in college swimming, I would recommend that you not worry about the intervals as much as you focus on proper technique and intensity.
The true benefit of USRPT is the neuro-muscular programming AND THEN the conditioning aspect. In reality, the adaptations are dynamic and simultaneous, but the whole point of USRPT is to return to the Specificity Principle. Practice how you will compete. Technique first, then condition within that technique. Turn the dial on the intervals once they have achieved race-technique and intensity, and provide technique feedback during the set so that they are focused learning and practicing the technique.
So, my advice would be, if some kids are getting more rest, don’t worry so much. Make sure ALL of your athletes are swimming at race pace within race appropriate technique THEN tinker with the intervals.
Our college guys did 25s 100 free pace on :30. They got between 15-19 seconds rest, when perhaps 10-15 seconds rest was more ideal. However, it was so much easier to calculate times doing the sets on :30 with a digital clock, that it was perhaps more advantageous for them to get an extra 5-10 seconds rest. They still did more strokes within a specific 100 freestyle technique and intensity than we did before in our previous training.
Hope this helps!
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipant12.5s rock. We have a diving well that is roughly 12.5yds long. It is nice to have a push off/breakout and finish each repetition.
When speaking with Dr. Rushall, I asked him about short course sprint training. He reminded me that short course swimming is even more skill dependent than long course swimming. He also told me that the difference in actual swimming velocities between athletes is almost negligible. What wins short course swimming is skills: starts, breakouts, turns, and finishes.
This has shaped my view of coaching sprinters. Of course we work on technique, that’s pretty much all I instruct them about during practice, but taking the time to consistently work “10 x 100-freestyle turns” is just as important, if not more important, than conditioning.
Another set, coincidentally every sprinter loves, that trains the 50 freestyle, is 10x 50-freestyle 25s from a dive. They walk back after each one, and we pretty much start when they are ready. While it can be nerve-wracking to stand patiently waiting for them to get ready for the next dive 25, I trust that they are giving their max. At the end of the day, it’s their swimming, not mine. If they should rest less, they know it. They can feel it. I trust them.
I also like “tethered-swimming” for technique work–more specifically for initiating a quick freestyle catch. Since this is generally shorter bursts, we do this after weights to mix things up a bit.
We tend to do our 12.5s first, because it is the most demanding on the nervous system and the muscles. If the athletes are fatigued from a 200, 500, or mile set, the chances of them being able to achieve and maintain the 50 freestyle technique in a 20-30 minute 50 freestyle set go down.
I would also like to do more 50 work with strokes. Breaststroke and backstroke can be tricky with 12.5s.
In general, we go highest intensity to lowest intensity. I can see that if you are training athletes for a plethora of events how it would be in your best interest to vary the sets, so that at competitions the athletes can do the 50 free after they did a 200IM.
A new addition to our program next year is going to be a delayed-feedback video station. There is a $5 “video delay” app, an ipad, a tripod, and a high definition television involved in the set-up. However, this tool will be used #1 for SKILLS, and #2 for swimming technique. I’m not sure if I can rig it to get underwater video, but I am researching. I’m not a techie, but perhaps using a go-pro with wifi, or getting a mounted underwater camera set-up would be needed.
Also, the width of our pool is roughly 17-yds. I love this fact, and I am trying to run lane-ropes along the width of our diving well and flags across for backstrokers. This would allow backstrokers, breaststrokers, and butterflyers the opportunity to practice proper underwater skills over yet still a shorter distance.
One thing I learned from USRPT is that it is really not different training. It is simply more precise training. By using shorter distances, and progressing to longer distances, athletes get the opportunity to improve (neuromuscularly and physiologically) one…step…at a time. It’s harder to overreach, fall down, and not get back up. Also, USRPT is inherently motivating. Athletes are getting accurate, instantaneous feedback (time clock) after every repeat.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
MSchuberParticipantHi!
I’m Michael Schuber, and I am the assistant swimming coach for Trinity University in San Antonio, TX. I coached my sprint group here utilizing USRPT. I was very satisfied with the results, and I am looking forward to sharing all that I have learned, how to blend it with a strength and conditioning program, and improvements I am going to make for next season.
I'm proud of what we've done, but I know 5, 10, 20 years from now I'll wonder what we'd done had we done it 'right'
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