doc
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Kevin & ljomccullough,
Your worst nightmare has arrived:).Kevin,
Based off the limited information you posted (not meant to be mean). I used some software I have to do some projections for her goal speed from 1:05.1 to 1:04.5,that’s a .93% improvement and should be very doable. I take, well EXCEL doses, that % improvement and divide it in half to give me a mid-season time of 1:04.80. So, working at her mid-season goal speed she would be “n x 25s on 1′” 15.15, with a no slower than speed of 15.60 and “n x 50 on 2′” should be 34.22, with a no slower than of 34.74. The (“no slower than speed is 3% over goal speed). If you are working at goal speed that gets REALLY rough. I’ve tried that and numbers made are VERY low and it’s VERY frustrating to the swimmer. It can be done. But just be ready for VERY low numbers made. Your thoughts on low numbers made is valid. I’d feel comfortable if my swimmers can make 6-8 “n x 50 on 2′” in a row, at no slower than pace. Hope this gives you some ideas.Mr.ljomccullough :),
Your thoughts are logical. How do you increase “force production”? make them take less cycles at or close to the same speed. Think about it. The brain learns at speed. We have done this with our DD sprinters also. So far with mixed results. Only one year’s worth of data. But I’m not ready to give up on it.I have done the same thing in breaking up the sets. Instead of 10-12 x “50 on 2:00”, we do 4 x 4 x “50 on 2:00” (started with 4 x 2 x 50 on 2:00), with a 200 causal swim on 3:00 between rounds. I have to remember that the speed is the critical component and anything I can do to insure that I will adjust and if it means adjusting rest interval or breaking sets up. I will. Whatever I have to do to get the race pace.
I hope I’ve given some insight into your questions.
Guys. You have to give more information. Actual paces for “n x 25 on 1:00” and “n x 50 on 2:00”, etc. It really helps. General numbers or season goals make it damn near impossible to help.
I’ve attached an EXCEL sheet I use to track swimmer performance though the season. If you look at the highlighted box in green you can see the correlations are pretty high. We do this for every set we run during the season. No brag here! There aren’t 3 coaches in the country that can correlate their training sets to actual race performance.
Again, I hope this helps,
Docljomccullough that wasn’t so bad was it? 🙂
? All that is not shared... is lost.Sorry about that. I wish to hell that that we could attached files above 512 to this site. I had to cut so much information that it’s ridiculous.
Like anything with coaching and coaches I’ve found that the “flavor of the month” only last so long.
? All that is not shared... is lost.izSwimming,
You just don’t get many coaches reading this stuff (which if you think about it is sad or just flat lazy). Couple of other books, one written by Dr. Frank Dick and another is Programming and Organization of Training by Dr. Yuri Verkhoshansky, this book will unscrew your head with regards to the detail the USSR and what they expected coaches to understand and the recorded keeping is just off the charts. He’s now dead but his daughter still maintains the website. Just search his name and it should come up. While not an Eastern European, I was strongly influenced by the detail they expected. i.e. East Germans and Eastern block countries. I’ve been VERY fortunate to have met, developed a relationship with and watched a number of former USSR and East German coaches and scientist over the years. Enough of the past.The .03 improvement is pretty good. When you think about it. I was just discussing this one of the young assistant coaches the other day. There is a problem with the system and that’s not only that you’re going to know when they’re going to swim fast. But also swim slow and there can be numerous reasons for that; turn speeds (to slow), underwater work(too much angle on undulations or energy in the wrong place) and the list could go on with numbers done last year vs. this year, speed last year vs. this year. I pretty sure you get the idea.
You really seem to be on the right track and are trying to cover every base possible. I would say this, stay with what you had planned at the start of the season. I know its hard because you want the kids to swim well. But if you change I’ll say more than 10% of what you had planned then you really won’t know what actually worked or didn’t work. I’m in the same boat! You get nervous, start to doubt and I’ve run the system for over 20 years.
On your tracking sheets. They are really rough to read (not meant to be mean). I’ve attached a file I use that tracks training speed, race performances, average performance speeds thru the season, number offered, number made, season offered and made plus % made for season. It looks like a lot but once you make one sheet its just copy and paste. This gives me a quick snapshot of how we are doing with training pace to race performance (it has to line up somewhere).
I apologize for chapter one of the book I’ll never write 🙂
We leave Monday for conference for both W & M.
Best to you.
? All that is not shared... is lost.sorry. if you send me an email address I’ll attach the file. It’s an interesting read.
? All that is not shared... is lost.Yes and interesting you quote Thomas Kurz as not many guys have read the book. I also believe Dr. Tudor Bompa discusses it in his book Theory and Methodology of Training as CNS inhibition.
Development of maximal speed. Thoughts on the problem.
1. Have you tried work at shorter distance with higher m/s? This is more a track thing. But should work with swimming. Its tedious work and probably with a small group.
2. Use tempo trainers set at 6-8 seconds (ATP-PC) and ask for all out maximum efforts?
3. Use tempo trainers with varying settings i.e. 1.00, 1.15, 1.20, 1.25 etc. To try and open CNS pathways? Make a scale and have them go up and down the “scale”.Your thoughts on “adding gear” to try and address the “force production” issue is tricky at best. Form all the research I’ve read paddles are not the answer (most are too big, they can’t achieve race or above race speeds and issues with SR & SL). Tubing assisted and resisted has issues with load determination and SR & SL. Parachutes are in the same category. Again from all the research I’ve read any time you start tying stuff to swimmers bad thing happen within the stroke technique.
The only two positive things I’ve found are Power Racks (not towers) and a system developed by Toussaint and Truijens. The Power Rack study is to large to attach so you can find it at JSR 1993, use google scholar. Toussaint study attached (let me know what it cost :)) I’ve also attached (hopefully) an article written by a track coach on the pros and cons of assisted/resisted training in track. If you think of your shoulders as hips and hands as feet it does make you think.
One last idea. Cut-off tee-shirts. I’m using smalls for the guys with the sleeves cut off. Thought there is less technical issues. Still have load problem. We’ll do 3 HH fast, 3 smooth/form and repeat sequence. Hope that makes sense.
Just food for thought
? All that is not shared... is lost.Kevin,
Example: Take Tuesday. The primary stroke could be fly, ba or br for the 100 performance. They are going to work long to short with regards to repeat distance. That’s why I have 50s2 as first set and 25s1 as second set, we know they correlate to 100 performance. The secondary stroke is free working the 200, so “n x 50s on 1” or “n x 100s” would be the third set with the majority doing freestyle. But I do have kids that don’t swim freestyle and they may actual go another/different stroke.You’re correct in that 3 exposures per week is I think the minimum. The kid that swims some free, a little breast and is a so-so IMer is a nightmare for planning training. I’ve really tried to get them to dial into to 2 strokes. It’s like trying to train a runner for the 100, 1500 and 10K. Can it be done, maybe but I feel it’s really a half A$$ effort and things become fragmented very fast.
Hope this helps
? All that is not shared... is lost.Kevin,
They could be. If you wanted to have an “IM day” you could use that sequence. You could also “flip” it and start with 100s (this is the creative part, you have to be willing to think outside the box. But respect the principles). In my sequence of work they will get 12 bouts of each stroke in a 4 week period. As you know they swim other strokes and you have to address those. So, trying to make sure they get enough of each stroke is a challenge. I have a cycle that I’ve worked on for about 6 years that gives me 12 bouts of short to long (distance of repeat), 12 of long to short (again distance of repeat).I’ve attached a partial example of the cycle I use for our MD/D kids. It comes as close as I can get to trying to cover all the bases that each kid swims during the season and gives them enough bouts to create improvement. it’s worked so far.
I’m not trying to be vague. It’s just that I’ve spent ALOT of time working on this and coaches need to invest a little time in thinking about this.
Hope this helps and creates some thoughts
? All that is not shared... is lost.Lefthandedswimer,
Your 75s are what I do with the Sprint/IMers. I will target their weak stroke and that’s what they do for 75s. I found that you push them beyond 75s and things get really weird. They will commit to 75s, but 100s they start to get, I’ll say nervous 🙂 Hint: it’s about the speed.I use 2IM split of weak stroke divided in 1/2 and add that back to 2IM split as target speed. It’s not easy and they have to really work at it. The neat thing is they understand (not necessarily like it). But they know in order to go faster that they have to be better.
Best to you!
? All that is not shared... is lost.Coach,
They’re bored or you’re bored? You have to think outside the box a bit. USRPT is not some magical training system. It follows general training principles that have been known for a very long time. The uniqueness (shouldn’t be, but is) is letting them stop when they can no longer hold pace regardless of the distance. Which in just about any program on the planet, just doesn’t happen. I think that coaches are in the mind set of practice is from 4-6pm and I have to OCCUPY that 2 hour block of time. It’s not about what they need it’s about entertaining or filling that 2 hours.When I became the Director of Performance the kids came up and asked “are we still going to have 400s on Wednesday and then the next week on Wednesday 200s?” They were bored! They knew what was coming everyday of the week. They had no idea of how their training relate to race performance. Well now they try and guess what’s coming and usually only get it right once every 10-12 days and now have a damn good idea of what it is they have to do in order to go faster. They see the correlation and they ain’t bored any more. By wanting to do 10 x 400, I interrupt that as they don’t want expectations. My distance kids do a 400 time trial which must be within 5% of LTB before it counts. From that TT I determine practice training pace which is usually .942 to .99 of TT time. As an example for SCY TT of 4:03.00, they would have to hold a NO SLOWER THAN SPEED of 4:17.96 on :30 rest so the interval would be 4:40 just for workout management. I will tell you right now. They will NEVER ask to do 10 x 400, NEVER! Note: the 400s have a very loose correlation to 1650/1500 pace.
What I concluded of all this?
1. Continuous USRPT make my swimmers too tired to perform well. 12 weeks are top, after that they begin to fall.
Look at your sequence of work. Both Vertically (daily) and horizontally (weekly). READ THE RECENT BULLETIN DR.RUSHALL POSTED.
2. Classic ‘oldschool’ high mileage low speed work is not needed at all.
You got that one right!
3. Need to find the ‘new stimulus’ after 8-12 weeks of USRPT. New goal times are not enough. USRPT is getting boring.
The “new stimulus” is the adjustment in speed. This is on going throughout the season not after 10-12 weeks. Once they make a “shift” it’s time to adjust speed. AGAIN READ THE RECENT BULLETIN DR.RUSHALL POSTED.If going faster is boring then maybe the need to take up another sport. You have to standardize your work or otherwise how in the hell can you know where your athletes are at?
Some things to think about.
? All that is not shared... is lost.Guess what. I have “sprinters” that are sub 1:51 2IMers and never do repeat 2IMs. 1. They can’t hold pace for more than 2. So what’s the point? Just because a coach can make them do it? Now there’s a real good reason. 2. Guess what, their technical skill goes right out the window after number 3-4 and you have now turned a thoroughbred into a donkey! Congratulations! You’re a great coach. Don’t get me started on “aerobic base” BS as an excuse.
The guys I work with and this includes 2 that are under 1:47, plus the sub 1:51 guys. IM protocol. This is a “down and dirty” way to determine pace.
n x 25 on 1:00 fly, divide 2IM fly split in 1/2 and that’s pace
n x 50 on 1:30/2:00 back, use 2IM split that’s pace
n x 50 on 1:00 breast, use 2IM split that’s pace
n x 100 on 1:30/2:00, use 2IM split for free x 2 for pace.These are their averages for the season to this point. We are 14 days out of conference meet.
n x 25 fly offered 538, made 303
n x 50 ba 2′ offered 215, made 187
n x 50 br 1′ offered 203, made 157
n x 100 2′ offered 133, made 83This is the minimum I would expect a coach to know. How much has the athlete done this year? If as a coach you can’t answer this basic question. Then you really are doing a disservice to your athletes.
Just a hint the longer the repeat. The further away they get from race pace correlations (Dr. Rushall is correct in his observation of this). And yes, I have the data.
You have to “learn to the read the numbers” I know this is frustrating and it’s like trying to learn a different language. But you have to THINK! Training has TO line up with performance and performance has to line up with training.
If someone told you coaching was easy. They lied! You only coach one swimmer. Try 42, it’s like trying to herd cats!
food for thought
? All that is not shared... is lost.Flyingboy,
A standard we use is be within 3% of LTB for all time trials or dual meet performances. If they can stay at or under 3% we feel they are race ready (simple unload and should swim fast) and training is balanced. If they are outside that say 5% that brings out “red flags” so to speak. We’ll go back and evaluate training, attendance and mental conditioning.just food for thought.
? All that is not shared... is lost.Brad,
Your thoughts on the HS boys are logical or “good idea”. If you can keep their current speed up the better. Don’t give them 30 x 25 on :30 or 20 x 50 on 10 sec rest, just freaks the shit out of kids (they have accumulated potential). I would control the number say 10 x 25 on 1:00 or 9-12 50s on 1:00 or 8-10 x 50s on 2:00. Then the next time you run the set go with maybe 12 x 25 and 11-13 x 50s. Hopefully, they went fast at HS meets and use those speeds for the sets. Its quick, down and dirty way, plus it saves you a boat load of time figuring out times for each swimmer.With regards to your second question. Capacity vs. Utilization, it is actually Accumulation & Utilization it was taken from Dr. Sergei Gordon in the development of the Parametric System. I know Bowman and others use “capacity” and that has become the new “buzz word” But he just high jacked it from the Parametric System and rephrased it. I will add with out recognizing where he got it from! It’s not an original thought!
What adaptations comes from “Capacity or Accumulation of Potential” (actual Russian phraseology)?
1. Increases in collateral circulation.
2. Increases in mitochondrial density.
3. Increases in respiratory functions.
4. CNS, namely its neuromuscular co-ordination SPECIFIC to endurance activities.
5. Requires vast amounts of energy not only from a fuel standpoint. But socially, physically and emotionally and the list could go on.Then what adaptations occur in the Parametric System Training? The same adaptations occur. Less the vast amounts of energy expended.
The question then becomes, if both make the same adaptations then where’s the advantage with traditional training or more work at sub race speeds?
My questions are:
1. Why would you want to spend 2+ hours per day doing something that you can get done in 1.5 hours or less?
2. Are 4 x 25 on :30/1:00, the same as 20 x 25 on :30/1:00?
3. Are 6 x 50 on 1:00, the same as 16 x 50 on 1:00?
4. 4 x 100, the same as 16-20 x 100?If you understand how the body handles work this is a no brainer! Constantly rehearse key points of your race.
Race pace practice sets are constant rehearsal of your race (tempo, finish, pace…). Last 15y/m in a race is trained behavior – You must practice those last 15y/m repeatedly. If you are trying to entertaining them.Then have them stay home and watch TV.
Train to race, don’t train to train.
Food for thought,
Doc
? All that is not shared... is lost.
